The future of Legacy?

[Nocley]

The tournaments are a separate area (and IIRC, business entity) from the restaurant, however the Gift Cards credit are stored on are available for use at both. It's pretty similar to having events at a hotel that happens to have a bar, there's still a physical separator of the two areas. You can't go about bringing booze into the game store area.

I don't think WOTC seems to mind that much, as employees frequent these legacy events too.

[dsck]

French Commander (= optimized for 1v1) is the only Commander I as a competitive player enjoy. But I do enjoy it very much. We also often have tournaments for it at big Eternal events, which is great and makes me want to really buy into it.

It's just a shame that the terminology is still so ambiguous. When I sit down for a match of 1v1 "Commander", I don't want my opponent to turn1 Sol Ring.

You dont like highlander?

[Ace/Homebrew]

How do you sell booze and sanction events in the same place? I thought that was against some WotC policy?

A lot of colleges have a [Mascot of school] Card that can be used for purchases around the campus (bookstore, cafeteria, etc). Local businesses usually accept the money on these cards as a form of payment because it benefits them to do so.

It sounds like Danyul is talking about something like this... Basically the local businesses have all agreed on some form of plastic currency. I don't believe players are actually buying booze at the same counter they are purchasing cardboard.

[DragoFireheart]

I don't believe players are actually buying booze at the same counter they are purchasing cardboard.

Well maybe this SHOULD be happening.

[MechTactical]

Well maybe this SHOULD be happening.

booze = legacy? hm.. i don't think so at least for me... i'd be looking at your Liliana’s rack rather than the board state. Maybe weed or MDMA or ... whatever suits you best, but not booze right? Speaking competitively....

[danyul]

IRT booze + Magic: The stores I'm referring to have a full bar, restaurant, play space, singles purchase area, and hella boardgames/minis all under the same roof. You can hang in the tournament space and play your matches. Then between rounds you wander over to the bar and down a beer. Then go back to the play space and sling spells while buzzed. Nobody is technically boozing *during* sanctioned matches so I guess it's all legit. There's no special college card things or whatever. The giftcards are for the entire store and since they sell booze and MTG, you can use the cards for either. I'll stop before this just becomes an ad for our local megastores but if yall are ever in the area you should check out the flagship Seattle card shops. I'll drink a microbrew with you. I might even share my vegetarian pasta.

[Crimhead]

Moving to Seattle...

[nedleeds]

French Commander (= optimized for 1v1) is the only Commander I as a competitive player enjoy. But I do enjoy it very much. We also often have tournaments for it at big Eternal events, which is great and makes me want to really buy into it.

It's just a shame that the terminology is still so ambiguous. When I sit down for a match of 1v1 "Commander", I don't want my opponent to turn1 Sol Ring.

French 1v1 is sweet. In Atlanta we got it rolling (a local guy really pushed it and put up his own cash, including bounties) a couple of times to the turn out of 20-30 people. The matches are really interesting, the decks are also very fun to build. It died out once he stopped Obamaing it with his own money.

Our local legacy events went from

Wednesday @ Supergames
2010 - 35
2011 - 25
2012 - 15
2013 - 10 ish
2014 - done

Miserable combo, miserable stale decks, bad traffic, the only ones left were just the credit misers trying to grind out $30-40 in credit playing misreable Brainponderpordian and Tell.

Thursday @ Giga-Bytes Cafe
2013 - non-existant
2014 - 10 ish if all my teammates got together and decided to come play each other
2015 - May 2015 - same
June 2015 - We start TuskVision and stream it every week and give away door prizes - 25-35 every week

The b&r list still sucks but people enjoy coming out and witnessing a spectacle. Some people play interesting decks and don't care so much about mising credit. Others are either stuck with one deck or are SCG barns, but they mostly get destroyed by the dozen or so Chokes/Omen of Fires/3Ball's floating around the room.

[Richard Cheese]

IRT booze + Magic: The stores I'm referring to have a full bar, restaurant, play space, singles purchase area, and hella boardgames/minis all under the same roof. You can hang in the tournament space and play your matches. Then between rounds you wander over to the bar and down a beer. Then go back to the play space and sling spells while buzzed. Nobody is technically boozing *during* sanctioned matches so I guess it's all legit. There's no special college card things or whatever. The giftcards are for the entire store and since they sell booze and MTG, you can use the cards for either. I'll stop before this just becomes an ad for our local megastores but if yall are ever in the area you should check out the flagship Seattle card shops. I'll drink a microbrew with you. I might even share my vegetarian pasta.

It sounds like an awesome concept. I'm guessing since it's a full restaurant, it's not too offputting for the parents that like to just drop a kid off for FNM, or is it mostly a 20s+ crowd?

Curious what you mean by great support from the store...I'd like to know exactly what they've done/are doing in terms of advertising and generating support. We've got a local FB group, but at this point it feels like a constant crawl of GPTs and PPTQs, all with less than a week's notice because there are so many events that advertising early gets you pushed off the page.

It seems like those two are also pretty centrally located for their respective areas. One of the problems it feels like we have here is that all the shops are out in the 'burbs on the outskirts of town, and usually not near any good food/drink options.

[frogczar]

Commander is the magic version of special ed.

I largely don't disagree. But the sad fact is that Legacy is on life support and essentially dead where I live locally in the Midwest. If you want to play with your old cards and you don't want to play the horrorshow that is Modern, Commander is all that's left for old folks like me.

Guys, I have tried to promote Legacy myself locally but the fact is people either don't have the cards or are unwilling to buy them, even if they admit it's the best format. You can only play against your own pre-built decks so many times.

In the end, Magic may end up where it began, as a casual game played amongst friends for fun.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Commander is the magic version of special ed.

Us Legacy players shouldn't be throwing stones; Show and Tell has been a Tier 1 strategy in the format for a couple of years now. Durr-hurr ramp and group-hug multiplayer are scarcely stupider than "derp, Grizzlebees/SpaghettiMonster/Dumbniscience -> I win".

Guys, I have tried to promote Legacy myself locally but the fact is people either don't have the cards or are unwilling to buy them, even if they admit it's the best format. You can only play against your own pre-built decks so many times.

Bingo.

You can try your damnedest to pull together a scene, but the prices (and, consequently, the power level) are such a tough hill to climb when trying to recruit people into the format.

Legacy decks are an enormous upfront investment; four figures into cardboard is nothing to sneeze at. Switching costs are also sky-high, leaving small/isolated metas stagnant. Deck/card power levels exacerbate this problem further. The difference between a Tier 1 deck and some budget build is astounding, and given the omniprevalence of the cantrip cartel, newbies or budget players can't really even Hope//Pray for variance to be their sword and shield, delivering them from moneyed opponents; 4x Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain/Dig/etc simply make powerful, explosive decks too consistent.

This is where Modern absolutely trounces Legacy in terms of accessibility. The gap in power between Tier 1 and (reasonably competitive) Budget decks is a bit slimmer. Powerful consistency tools (i.e. cantrips/tutors) are either too old for the format or banned, allowing variance to smooth things out for newbies or cash-strapped folks that couldn't afford Tier 1 decks. And, lately, every large event Top 8 showcases something new, presenting the image of an open format for brewing, where any build could potentially top 8. You know, like Legacy used to be like, before all the dumb shit that got dumped on the format from Rise of the Eldrazi onwards.

All this said, I'm envious of those with a healthy Legacy scene; my favorite decks in Magic aren't legal/"viable" elsewhere and I'd rather be playing them at a disadvantage than slinging something else. But it's naive to think that the format, as a whole, is healthy and sustainable. It's living on borrowed time in many areas, sadly.

[Mr Miagi]

We definetly need a "like" function this this forum. Greatmpost Zombi legend. So much truth in it.

[Shaman]

I like.

[presquepartout]

My LGS (Atomic Empire in Durham, NC) similarly has several beers on tap, and also sells bottled beer. The store is one of the largest in NC, and is frequented by people of all ages. I haven't ever seen beer be a problem. And you can buy beer with store credit. Our weekly Legacy tournament is $15 entry, with everything paid back out in store credit. I usually save up most of my credit for singles and to cover entry, but when I show up for cube, I do it as some higher being intended -- drunk off of good, local beer.

[danyul]

It sounds like an awesome concept. I'm guessing since it's a full restaurant, it's not too offputting for the parents that like to just drop a kid off for FNM, or is it mostly a 20s+ crowd?

Curious what you mean by great support from the store...I'd like to know exactly what they've done/are doing in terms of advertising and generating support. We've got a local FB group, but at this point it feels like a constant crawl of GPTs and PPTQs, all with less than a week's notice because there are so many events that advertising early gets you pushed off the page.

It seems like those two are also pretty centrally located for their respective areas. One of the problems it feels like we have here is that all the shops are out in the 'burbs on the outskirts of town, and usually not near any good food/drink options.

Well I mostly hit up the Legacy/Modern events and there aren't many kids there due to the cost of those formats. But I've slinked in on offdays and have witnessed seas of little ones battling Standard and Pokemon and Yugioh and stuff. The great support is due to the crazy prizes they give out. Duals and insane store credit. They make zero dollars off of the events (as far as I know) and put everything back into the community. Also the event runners are highly visible, well-liked, and genuinely awesome people. The stores are drama-free and generally fantastic. I'm just a schlub who goes there to take advantage of their hard work, so I probably couldn't tell you exactly what they are doing to generate this much success. I just know that they aren't fucking around. And everybody knows that these events will have great turnouts/support, so people show up because they know people will show up. That Catch-22 promotion isn't exactly helpful, but that's what we have up here.

[Julian23]

Can I move in with you Dan? That sounds just too amazing.

[danyul]

You are welcome to crash on my couch anytime.

[Chatto]

There are a couple of tournaments every month which I can attend. Most of them are visited by the regular people, and there will always be around 20-25 people. Most of those tournaments give store-credit, or some boosters (which is fine by me).

There is one bi-monthly tournamenti I know of, which is a bit different. You pay € 15 to attend, there is a real lunchbreak (you can either bring your own food or order something at the venue), during one round they serve a snack, and top 4 gets cash (varying, but usually the winner gets something like € 100). Also, if six-eight people dropped they sometimes start a single elemination side-event, with pretty good prices (always Legacy staples, Duals included). Of course you need to pay extra.

I have no idea were Legacy will end, but right now the Legacy-community is still going strong around here. Yes, the same faces will be there, but sometimes there are new guys attending. Thing is, it's much easier to get into Modern.

[Krieg]

Legacy is fine here.
24 for last Friday's FNM and 68 for yesterday's Seattle GPT

[Admiral_Arzar]

Legacy is fine here.
24 for last Friday's FNM and 68 for yesterday's Seattle GPT

Ugh I wish. We had 2 GPTs this weekend and they got 8 and 11 people respectively. I think we lost a good number of players to Modern PPTQs though (a lot of the grinders here would rather play Modern I think).