[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

4 cavern Of souls

4 ancient tomb

4 city of traitors

4 great furnace

4 wasteland

2 dwarven Ruins

If you’re not familiar, Dwarven ruins is part of the fallen empires sac land cycle, they come into play tapped, add R, or sac to add RR. The cycle has seen some play in legacy, in some Aluren lists (haven wood battleground , the green one)

I want to play Welder and lack much acceleration besides monolith metalworker and the sol lands

I also need red sources to cast welder

The sac land seems to be a good fit

Any opinions?

[Jorruk]

So, my gut feeling is that MUD will be a solid choice while the meta's in flux over the next month or two, because:
1) Post ban, it's always good to do something proactive and powerful
2) There's gonna be a lot of Reanimator, Sneak & Show, RUG, and Miracles, all of which we can punish with shit like Chalice, Lodestone, and Thorn

I'm a bit nervous about DnT rearing its head, though Ballista and Spyglass are useful printings since DnT was super popular a year or two ago. Here's the 75 I'll be trying next week:

4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone
3 Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil
1 Emperion
1 Sundering Titan
2 Ballista
2 Ugin

4 Monolith
4 Chalice
4 Thorn
2 Greaves
1 Spyglass
1 Staff of Domination

3 Wasteland
4 Tomb
3 City
11 Post
2 Cavern
1 Inventors' Fair

1 Ballista
2 Spine
1 Contagion Engine
2 Portal (maybe this becomes Karn 3.0)
2 Crucible
2 Spyglass
2 Tsabo's Web
3 Tormod's Crypt

(This isn't a huge departure from my old lists. Main changes are 4 Thorn - I'd been on just 2 Trinisphere for a while - and reintroducing Spine to the board.)

I like your list but maybe 4 thorns is a bit too many. They are going to be harder and harder to cast and it will be harder to cast Ugin (which usually just wins you the game if it hits the board)
I also think that now sundering titan can shine again.
How do you fell about no blightsteel colossus ? Of course it is sometimes an overkill, but the "indestructible" part is useful against some decks. I still have in memory a game against Lands where he had to block with 3 marit lage to finally find a maze of ith.
Personally I am currently building a deck with crucible MD and 2 karns. I am a bit afraid of wastelands again. Moreover if we are going to fight against goblins again I want to have Ugin on the board as fast as possible. The new trashmaster is insanely good against us. Hopefull the deck will not be heavily played.
I have also thought of contagion engine, is it really good ? I guess it is mainly played against DnT and merfolk. I think it also synergizes quite well with our PW and ballista. I should give it a try.


@Troll of grimness
I like your idea of Dwarven ruins, I have also thought of spire of industry.
However I haven't looked into a welder build. In that case it may be interesting to try the plan with blood sun and lands like scorched ruins to cheat a massive early threat. (like t1 : welder, t2 bloodsun, t3 scorched ruins + sundering titan/steel hellkite/wurmcoil etc etc)

[DJ_AGUILA]

I like your list but maybe 4 thorns is a bit too many. They are going to be harder and harder to cast and it will be harder to cast Ugin (which usually just wins you the game if it hits the board)
I also think that now sundering titan can shine again.
How do you fell about no blightsteel colossus ? Of course it is sometimes an overkill, but the "indestructible" part is useful against some decks. I still have in memory a game against Lands where he had to block with 3 marit lage to finally find a maze of ith.
Personally I am currently building a deck with crucible MD and 2 karns. I am a bit afraid of wastelands again. Moreover if we are going to fight against goblins again I want to have Ugin on the board as fast as possible. The new trashmaster is insanely good against us. Hopefull the deck will not be heavily played.
I have also thought of contagion engine, is it really good ? I guess it is mainly played against DnT and merfolk. I think it also synergizes quite well with our PW and ballista. I should give it a try.


@Troll of grimness
I like your idea of Dwarven ruins, I have also thought of spire of industry.
However I haven't looked into a welder build. In that case it may be interesting to try the plan with blood sun and lands like scorched ruins to cheat a massive early threat. (like t1 : welder, t2 bloodsun, t3 scorched ruins + sundering titan/steel hellkite/wurmcoil etc etc)The worst deck for MUD and all decks that haven't FOW, BU Reanimator, the sideboard should have more anti graveyard hate

[Jorruk]

Agreed on the fact that it is a terrible MU before side. After side I usually run faerie macabre but I guess i will switch again on the Leyline plan.
It will make our MU easier against lands. I also like having a replicant in my SB for games against reanimator and S&T.

[Jorruk]

Here is the list I'm planning to play according to my feeling about the possible current meta.
The land part is still perfectible, as I am playing crucible I may go to the 4x city of traitors.
Also I may cut a land (cavern ?) to introduce a urborg.
The possibility to play Karakas MD is also possible.

Creatures 18
Blightsteel colossus 1
Kuldotha Forgemaster 3
Lodestone golem 4
Metalworker 4
Platinum emperion 1
Steel Hellkite 1
Sundering titan 1
Wurmcoil engine 3

Planeswalkers 4
Ugin, the spirit dragon 2
Karn, scion of Urza 2

Artifacts 15
Chalice of the void 4
Crucible of world 1
Grim Monolith 4
Lightning greaves 2
Staff of domination 1
Sorcerous Spyglass 1
Trinisphere 2

Lands 24
Ancient tomb 4
Cavern of souls 3
City of traitors 3
Cloudpost 4
Glimmerpost 4
Thespian Stage 1
Vesuva 2
Wasteland 2
Inventor's fair 1

Total 61

Sideboard 15

Duplicant 1
Leyline of the void 4
Orbs of warding 1
Sorcerous spyglass 2
Spine of Ish sah 1
Thorn of amethyst 2
Warping wail 2
Ensnaring Bridge 1
Contagion Engine 1

EDIT : corrected page layout

[malfie13]

Theres also sandstone needle, if you want a tapped double red land. Im pretty sure that im not high on thorns. Rug doesnt care much about that. Might go up actual factual sphere of restistances
in the sb for elves and gobbos. Also, warping wail is likely correct. I am running two ugins AND two all is dust mb until further testing. I dunno if i like leyline. I will never be casting them so they rot in my hand. Forgemaster can be easily stifled, so id rather invest mana in two staff, four worker. I may also go up to 4 monolith or three monolith, two dynamos. Draw engines and ballista plan are better if leovold isnt present. Thoughtseize and hymn decks will likely decline. These are my first observations. I will try to post a cobbled together day 1 list in a few, but i have no clue what to expect exactly, except that miracles is now t1 so new ulamog in the sb seems better than average.

[malfie13]

Also, in addition to blood sun, one other consideration in actual, factual red is trash for treasure. Seems good with several pieces, especially if you run battleball.

[malfie13]

This is my day 1 list:

Deck: Legacy MUD Post Ban 7-7-18.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:18
1 Walking Ballista
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Steel Hellkite
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Blightsteel Colossus

Spells:19
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grim Monolith
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Staff of Domination
2 Trinisphere
1 Coercive Portal
2 Thran Dynamo
1 All Is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:23
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Buried Ruin
3 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Vesuva

Sideboard:15
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Sundering Titan
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Tsabo's Web
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Karn, Scion of Urza

[malfie13]

As I am thinking about this, only running to forge Masters means I can probably get away with two monolith and 3 Dynamo. What Rex us at this point? Obviously recall and ancient Grudge, and no Rod is super annoying. They are all two drops

[Silverflame]

As I am thinking about this, only running to forge Masters means I can probably get away with two monolith and 3 Dynamo. What Rex us at this point? Obviously recall and ancient Grudge, and no Rod is super annoying. They are all two drops

Back to basics and the new Goblin too (we need to stop their lackey to have a chance).

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

MTGO Legacy Challenge results after the bannings,

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-07-09

[Stuart]

The worst deck for MUD and all decks that haven't FOW, BU Reanimator, the sideboard should have more anti graveyard hate

Someone on reddit said, basically, the same thing (https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/8x63d9/is_anyone_going_to_be_trying_mud_in_the_new_meta/e21alkr), which is shocking to me. Sure, we're not a Force of Will deck, but as long as we don't get turn 1'd, we have access to Lodestone, Chalice, Thorn, Trinisphere, Wasteland, Spyglass, etc. I would definitely recommend running 3+ pieces of grave hate in your board right now, but if Reanimator really is popular, I think we're totally fine.

[DJ_AGUILA]

MTGO Legacy Challenge results after the bannings,

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-07-09

I don´t see any MUD:frown::frown:, only colorless deck, Eldrazi Agro

[Jorruk]

I don´t see any MUD:frown::frown:, only colorless deck, Eldrazi Agro

MUD is not a very popular deck so I am not disappointed by these results. Moreover even pros have to suffer from variance. Let's see in a couple of months !

Additionally lots of MUD player have switched to eldrazi wich is thought to be more stable (but far less fun IMO)

[Jorruk]

What are your thoughts about torpor orb (reminder "Creatures entering the battlefield don't cause abilities to trigger.") if Gob decks become more and more popular ?

[Silverflame]

What are your thoughts about torpor orb (reminder "Creatures entering the battlefield don't cause abilities to trigger.") if Gob decks become more and more popular ?

It's a good card against goblins and D&T, I used to run it with reasonable success.

Since the meta shifted, I was thinking on going more combo oriented. I'll remove the post lands and replace with factories, red mana and utilities. 2 Blood Sun MD against wastelands/Rishadan. Gonna test it a bit before posting a list.

[DJ_AGUILA]

It's a good card against goblins and D&T, I used to run it with reasonable success.

Since the meta shifted, I was thinking on going more combo oriented. I'll remove the post lands and replace with factories, red mana and utilities. 2 Blood Sun MD against wastelands/Rishadan. Gonna test it a bit before posting a list.
Be Careful with Blood Sun!!!! versus turbo depths,lands is very bad because the 20/20 with the depths take only wirh the land.

[Captain Hammer]

I really think the deck would have a lot more success if it stayed lower casting cost and played more hate cards akin to Dragon Stompy or Vintage Shops decks.

Traxos is a fantastic and cheap win condition we now have access to.

Perhaps a build like this...

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Mox Opal
3 Lotus Petal

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Foundry Inspector
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Traxos, Scourge of Kroog

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst

4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Metalworker
2 Walking Ballista

Other cards to consider...
Chief of the Foundry
Phyrexian Metamorph
Phyrexian Revoker
Umejawa's Jitte
Tangle Wire
Fleetwheel Cruiser
Karn, Scion of Urza

[kingtk3]

For any of you that wants to splash red: years ago I played a version with some equipments (batterskull, sword of fire and ice, jitte, graves, ecc..) and a couple of godo, bandit warlord. Even if he eats a bolt you still have batterskull to put pressure, and if he does survive a turn, you can deal huge damage with your vigilant creatures.

I'm not saying it's OP or else, only that is a route to consider when splashing red.

[DJ_AGUILA]

For any of you that wants to splash red: years ago I played a version with some equipments (batterskull, sword of fire and ice, jitte, graves, ecc..) and a couple of godo, bandit warlord. Even if he eats a bolt you still have batterskull to put pressure, and if he does survive a turn, you can deal huge damage with your vigilant creatures.
I'm not saying it's OP or else, only that is a route to consider when splashing red.
I think the MUD legacy deck is in stand by (pause),because the mud players don't know how the ban DRS and gitaxian affect the metagame. Splash to red is great but versus combo decks is good deck?

[kingtk3]

I think the MUD legacy deck is in stand by (pause),because the mud players don't know how the ban DRS and gitaxian affect the metagame. Splash to red is great but versus combo decks is good deck?

Depends on combo: in my experience the worst is Omniscence because S&T doesn't care about Chalice or Trinisphere, and you cannot hide under a bridge as you could against Sneak&Show

Versus the other combo it all depends if they go off before you play your disruption. If your meta is really infested by fast combo you should play some free cards in the side, like Mindbreak trap and Faerie macabre

[Captain Hammer]

I think the MUD legacy deck is in stand by (pause),because the mud players don't know how the ban DRS and gitaxian affect the metagame. Splash to red is great but versus combo decks is good deck?

Playing the following cards maindeck like in the list i posted last page gives the deck great game against both combo and tempo...

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Traxos, Scourge of Kroog (fast win condition)
4 Thought-Knot Seer (thoughtseize with a 4/4 attached to it)

[Stuart]

Still unsure why people are saying MUD is bad against combo. Lodestone, Chalice, Trinisphere/Thorn, Wasteland, and a fast clock is about as good of a non-BUG combo gameplan as you can ask for.


Playing the following cards maindeck like in the list i posted last page gives the deck great game against both combo and tempo...

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Traxos, Scourge of Kroog (fast win condition)
4 Thought-Knot Seer (thoughtseize with a 4/4 attached to it)

The list you posted is Steel Stompy, which is a different deck. MUD is a Metalworker big mana combo deck.

#

I played my first post-ban Legacy last night and enjoyed myself. Wins were against Miracles and Food Chain, losses were to DnT and Maverick. Some quick takeaways:
- Locally, the meta is still super fair. I assume this is because everyone's overboarding grave hate and scared to bring Reanimator.
- Ballista continues to impress, though I need to get more disciplined at sitting on them. I have a tendency to run them out to deal with mana dorks, etc, but obviously they can win on the spot once you're in the late game.
- I'm currently on 4 Spyglass in the 75, as DnT and Aggroloam are apparently very popular around here now. It wasn't terribly relevant for me last night, though it saved me from getting Ballista'd by Food Chain.
- I think I want some Bridges in my board - I had 2 in there and cut them last minute. I lost my 3rd game against Maverick to a pair of 12/12 Knights, and then learned he only had a single Pridemage to deal with problematic artifacts, so Bridge would have been a pretty hard lock. It also has obvious applications against shit like Sneak & Show.
- I had 2 seperate Forgemaster activations for Sundering Titan, and while I still won in both cases, a Blightsteel would have ended the game faster. I might bring him back in.

[DJ_AGUILA]

Still unsure why people are saying MUD is bad against combo. Lodestone, Chalice, Trinisphere/Thorn, Wasteland, and a fast clock is about as good of a non-BUG combo gameplan as you can ask for.



The list you posted is Steel Stompy, which is a different deck. MUD is a Metalworker big mana combo deck.

#

I played my first post-ban Legacy last night and enjoyed myself. Wins were against Miracles and Food Chain, losses were to DnT and Maverick. Some quick takeaways:
- Locally, the meta is still super fair. I assume this is because everyone's overboarding grave hate and scared to bring Reanimator.
- Ballista continues to impress, though I need to get more disciplined at sitting on them. I have a tendency to run them out to deal with mana dorks, etc, but obviously they can win on the spot once you're in the late game.
- I'm currently on 4 Spyglass in the 75, as DnT and Aggroloam are apparently very popular around here now. It wasn't terribly relevant for me last night, though it saved me from getting Ballista'd by Food Chain.
- I think I want some Bridges in my board - I had 2 in there and cut them last minute. I lost my 3rd game against Maverick to a pair of 12/12 Knights, and then learned he only had a single Pridemage to deal with problematic artifacts, so Bridge would have been a pretty hard lock. It also has obvious applications against shit like Sneak & Show.
- I had 2 seperate Forgemaster activations for Sundering Titan, and while I still won in both cases, a Blightsteel would have ended the game faster. I might bring him back in.
Can you post the decklist? S&T is very difficult for MUD but Maverick????, Two Walking Ballista is necessary.

[malfie13]

Sneak and show is, was and always will be a problematic match pre board. Ive been pretty happy with my mavericks match amd rug match since i moved my new karns to the sb for grindy matches and put my two all is dust mb, instead. Also, im currently on a non traditional 2x to 3x monolith, as usual, but am also running only two forgemasters bc of stifle, and 3x thran dynamo to clost the mana gap. Been testing very well. Thorn has gotten less impressive mb bc of all the d and t, rug, gobbos and etc. They have felt oddly correct sb with a shift of a spyglass and the possible addition of mb crucible. Still on 2x staff to draw my deck bc of the newly lesser importnce of leovold. Storm has gotten even less scary, as theyve lost their training wheels. Now its blind therapies, which hurt a lot less. Lands have moved to 4x ports which can be shut down post board by tsabo's web. I may even add a second. Wail feels ok as insurance vs show and tell, but not great. Beware their new addition. That blue creature is gross amd becomes a must spyglass post board.

[malfie13]

I am also interested in getting another ballista in sb if I play in an open meta or d and t and gobbos gets bigger in my meta. Here is my current working list.

Deck: Legacy MUD Post Ban 7-26-18.dec

Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:17
1 Walking Ballista
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Blightsteel Colossus

Spells:21
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Grim Monolith
1 Lightning Greaves
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Staff of Domination
2 Trinisphere
1 Coercive Portal
3 Thran Dynamo
2 All Is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:23
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Buried Ruin
2 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Vesuva

Sideboard:15
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Sundering Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Tsabo's Web
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Karn Liberated
1 Spine of Ish Sah

[Jorruk]

Interestingly we have the same conclusions : I have also brought 2 all is dust MB and moved out Karn.

[Jorruk]

I have just ID'ed the last local event in legacy with the following list :

Creatures 18
Blightsteel colossus 1
Kuldotha Forgemaster 3
Lodestone golem 4
Metalworker 4
Platinum emperion 1
Sundering titan 1
Wurmcoil engine 3
Walking balista 1

Planeswalkers 2
Ugin, the spirit dragon 2

Artifacts 18
Chalice of the void 4
Coercive portal 1
Grim Monolith 3
Lightning greaves 2
Staff of domination 2
Sorcerous Spyglass 2
Trinisphere 2
All is dust 2
Lands 23
Ancient tomb 4
Cavern of souls 2
City of traitors 3
Cloudpost 4
Glimmerpost 4
Urborg 1
Vesuva 2
Wasteland 2
Inventor's fair 1

Sideboard 15
Duplicant 1
Leyline of the void 4
Orbs of warding 1
Sorcerous spyglass 1
Spine of Ish sah 1
Ratchet bomb 2
Warping wail 2
Ensnaring Bridge 1
Contagion Engine 1
Tsabo's web 1


I really enjoyed Contagion Engine, it saved my ass against an angry rabblemaster and all its friends. I haven't met any MU where Tsabo's web were sided in (I encountered Burn x 2, D&T, Show & T, Dragon stompy, UR delver)
Globally the list feels solid. I may switch again the sundering titan for a steel hellkite.

[1ron]

I have just ID'ed the last local event in legacy with the following list :



I really enjoyed Contagion Engine, it saved my ass against an angry rabblemaster and all its friends. I haven't met any MU where Tsabo's web were sided in (I encountered Burn x 2, D&T, Show & T, Dragon stompy, UR delver)
Globally the list feels solid. I may switch again the sundering titan for a steel hellkite.

D&T is one of the matchups where Tsabo's Web should go in.

[1ron]

I just got my foil metalworkers and monoliths :)

[Jorruk]

D&T is one of the matchups where Tsabo's Web should go in.

Indeed, I did it but I haven't found them (sorry, I was a bit tired and forget to mention this). I had the luck to be the aggressive player for these games. My opponent only wasted me once if I remember correctly.
G1 it was :
T1 : ancient tomb, chalice on 1. he went plain go
T2 : ancient tomb, lodestone. Plain go.
T3 : cloudpost, lodestone. Port go.
T4 : glimmerpost, grim monolith, greaves, wurmcoil. Concede.

And G2 it was a bit similar.
T1 : plain go. Ancient tomb, grim monolith, trinisphere (I usually keep one or two on the draw)
T2 : wasteland go. Cloudpost go
T3 : port, destroyed my cloudpost go. Cloudpost go.
T4 : nothing. Cloudpost, untap grim.
T5 : plain vial. Glimmerpost walking balista
T6. Flicker my balista etc ...
He built a board, and begin to be threatening until I played contagion engine to destroy his creatures with him having an empty hand.



Congrats on your pimp !

[Jorruk]

(Short) report on side events from GP Bruxelles incoming.
The list I was playing did not performed very well and it feels I will play the third trinisphere + 4 grim monolith again.
Overall I did a 2-2-2 with this deck. (ID, in reality it is 4-2). But I kept poor hands, I should have mulliganed more agressively.
I was lucky to win lots of games thanks to perfect topdecks + unluck from my opponent.

Globally I played against :
- BR réa (lost)
- Stoneblade (win)
- Elves (win)

- BR réa (lost)
- Food chain (win)
- Agro loam (win by miracle)

[malfie13]

Deck still has legs. I let my buddy run my list last saturday amd he went 4.0.1 (ID) at a local event vs people who knew what he was playing. Woulda been 5.0 nc they played it out. He played vs mircles, rug delver, elves, ub reanimator and something that i missed rd 2. Honestly, from what he said it was bridge mvp post board.

Has anyone tried a welder build yet? I picked up welders, blood suns and would probably pick up ash barrens, a single mountain and some faithless lootings. As background, my whole deck is foil, so i have the odd sitcon of needing dumbly expensive faithless lootings lol.

[TLK]

Deck still has legs. I let my buddy run my list last saturday amd he went 4.0.1 (ID) at a local event vs people who knew what he was playing. Woulda been 5.0 nc they played it out. He played vs mircles, rug delver, elves, ub reanimator and something that i missed rd 2. Honestly, from what he said it was bridge mvp post board.

Has anyone tried a welder build yet? I picked up welders, blood suns and would probably pick up ash barrens, a single mountain and some faithless lootings. As background, my whole deck is foil, so i have the odd sitcon of needing dumbly expensive faithless lootings lol.

Can you please share your Welder build?

[Dice_Box]

Can you please share your Welder build?

Hell, I'll just go with "Can you share photos of your foil deck?".

[TLK]

Hell, I'll just go with "Can you share photos of your foil deck?".

I can gladly share photos of my foil MUD deck...complete with foil City of Traitors. :)

[Dice_Box]

I can gladly share photos of my foil MUD deck...complete with foil City of Traitors. :)
Glorious.

[malfie13]

Whoa, that's the foil I am missing, foil cot. That's dedication. Other than that, my whole deck is pimp too.

Who is going to ew? I am psyched. After the 22nd place finish last year, i just want to do better.

http://www.cardtitan.com/eternal_weekend

[malfie13]

D&T is one of the matchups where Tsabo's Web should go in.

With d and t and lands being enormous meta decks, tsabo's web feels like a must. May even run 3rd spyglass and a second web sb. Dont wanna die to a port or waste vs d and t, an otherwise easy match. Lands is a match that sucks already. Dont need to make it easier on them. As it is, they are running 4x port and 4x waste and 0 to 1 gq, thank god. Its gotten slightly better.

[malfie13]

Can you please share your Welder build?

I'm still brewing what exactly i want to do with welders. Since there aren't any drs anymore, i feel like it could be well placed. It is the original version of the deck. I really dunno. It would require heavy testing. Id be on ash barrens and maybe 2 mts. Already run 3x cavern, might go to 4. Blood sun seems excellent. Allows us to survive path, btb and gq. Dunno

[Silverflame]

Good luck to y'all that will play at Richmond, may you always be on the play with chalice on 1.

[malfie13]

Did anyone day two?

[malfie13]

Was asked to share pictures of the current list. Just went 4.0.1 with this at a local torunament. Split finals, although i should have won 2.1.

http://imgur.com/gallery/2t9hP3q

Yes, only 1 3 ball. I'm a madman. Lol.

The tokens.

http://imgur.com/a/W6FxriS

[Silverflame]

Was asked to share pictures of the current list. Just went 4.0.1 with this at a local torunament. Split finals, although i should have won 2.1.

http://imgur.com/gallery/2t9hP3q

Yes, only 1 3 ball. I'm a madman. Lol.

The tokens.

http://imgur.com/a/W6FxriS

Awesome deck, man, gratz! The tokens are really nice too.

I've put the deck away for a while until the meta around here stabilizes. Too many goblins and Dragon Stompies running rampant.
I see you cut some monoliths for dynamos, how ist it faring?

[malfie13]

Dynamos are actually pretty boss. I was surprised how much i like them. Since I'm only on two Forgemasters and rug delver is still a deck that exists, the monoliths are at once a liability and make the deck more of a glass Cannon. The dynamos become true ramp because they untap every turn and still add 3 Mana. Sure it cost 4 instead of two, but for the same reason a lot of blue decks are running spell snare, I found myself wanting to chalice on two a lot. It hits goyf, snaps, life, and many other problematic spells

[malfie13]

Also I'd optimally run a second three ball, I just haven't figured out what to cut yet. I probably will at some point.

[kingtk3]

Only 3 Chalices?

[malfie13]

Only 3 Chalices?

One was in the board

[malfie13]

http://www.cardtitan.com/eternal_weekend

Oh, here. We. Go.

[Runninonwater]

hello hello!

Finally got to take my deck for a spin, sadly i was plagued with bad draws.
This is the list i went with:

Land (24)
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Buried Ruin
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
2x Darksteel Citadel
1x Grasping Dunes
1x Inventors' Fair
1x Karakas
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Wasteland

Artifact (17)
1x Batterskull
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Heart of Kiran
2x Lightning Greaves
4x Mox Diamond
1x Mox Opal
1x Staff of Domination
2x Trinisphere

Planeswalker (4)
4x Karn, Scion of Urza

Creature (15)
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Metalworker
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Traxos, Scourge of Kroog
2x Walking Ballista

Sideboard (15)
3x Bottled Cloister
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Crucible of Worlds
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Ratchet Bomb
3x Smokestack
1x Trinisphere

I tried and go with a Transformative sideboard, from MUD aggro to MUD Stax.
Also, i were thinking of adding a Dunes of the Dead so i could create 2/2 zombies.

The cards i took out for the sideboard was:
4 Traxos, Scourge of Kroog
1 Phyrexian metamorph
1 Heart of Krian
1 Batterskull
1 Mox Opal
4 Lodestone Golem
4 karn, Scion of Urza

Sadly, my games were plagued with poor draws. Drew too many lands, too few lands etc.

But i had some games like against GW Maverick, where i managed to land a early lodestone to lock them out with Lightning Greaves on turn 2, into Traxos and Walking ballista to take out his Manadork.

And against UB shadow i swapped for stax and managed to lockdown the game with Bridge.
Accidently played a land from the graveyard and had 2 lands in hand, he had infinite zombietokens because of Liliana, the Last Hope.
Luckily i had 2 Ratchet Bombs out, one on 0 and one on 1.

Had to blow the bomb but the trinisphere locked him our, i took out all of his lands.
Sadly it ended in a draw, he had 5 life and i couldn't find my ballista.

Against grixis delver, i managed to Trinisphere into turn 2 Karn and just mowed them down.

The whole thing, it ended with 0-2-1
Fought: Junk Rector with Dovescape, Curse of Death's Hold, Veteran Explorer etc. 0-2
UB shadow 1-1-1
GW Maverick 1-2
Grixis delver 1-2

I feel like i drew really poorly... made one or two gameplay mistakes. But it was fun playing legacy again.

Tell me what you think bout the list ^^

[malfie13]

Hey man, woe be it for me to ever criticize somebody for attempted to do something new with an established deck, LOL! It's always nice to see someone trying something new. Don't get discouraged, and take your experiences that didn't work and make your deck better next time. That being said, a certain amount of the mud game is pre-loading your deck correctly so that it runs correctly in your meta. The hardest thing to do is Judge an open meta correctly with the which is why even though the deck is silly powerful it can fizzle anyway.

Speaking of doing strange things, I am very seriously considering running a basic wastes in my deck for my next big event, as assassins trophy will be legal and many people are going to want to be playing with the new toy. Even I would like to play with the new toy to be totally honest, as I love black green X as my secondary deck choice. Maybe I'll do it for side events, before the main event where I want to play this probably I think it pays dividends to have at least one Basic Land at this point LOL

[Silverflame]

A friend from Brazil top 8'ed an event with this list a few months:

24 LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Vesuva
4 Wasteland

14 CREATURES
3 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Metalworker
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Wurmcoil Engine

23 OTHER SPELLS
3 Batterskull
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Karn Liberated
2 Thran Dynamo
4 Trinisphere
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

SIDEBOARD
3 All Is Dust
1 Batterskull
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Steel Hellkite

[malfie13]

Pushing for bombs, i see. Lol. I honestly love 3 ulamogs mb. It doubles as spot removal and is one of the best wincons colorless has! Also, i run 3 to 4 bws mb, so i like the 3 ugins. Dont know how i feel about sbs for lodestone. Best wincon ever is t1 thorn or chalice into t2 lodestone.... cant argue with success tho.

In other news, how bad do we think the assassins trophy phenomenon will be? Im tempted to run a 1x wastes for that, lands, d and t and miracles, post board. Path to Exile is annoying, and gq is still backbreaking, if you run into a lands player running it.

Also, who is on mb crucibles? I currently run zero wastelands, in order to run stage, ruin and 2x cavern. Not sure it warrants crucible, perhaps not even in the sb. I am going to wind up being slightly vague about my own choices until after ew, since i am going and i am really going to attempt to rock it.

[malfie13]

Also, has anyone ever tried a phyrexian metamorph in the sb? I liked the concept of mimic and clone artifacts for nice cases, but mirage mirror always felt like too much of an investment.

[malfie13]

Occasionally, etb as a creature is relevent, too.

[Silverflame]

Pushing for bombs, i see. Lol. I honestly love 3 ulamogs mb. It doubles as spot removal and is one of the best wincons colorless has! Also, i run 3 to 4 bws mb, so i like the 3 ugins. Dont know how i feel about sbs for lodestone. Best wincon ever is t1 thorn or chalice into t2 lodestone.... cant argue with success tho.

In other news, how bad do we think the assassins trophy phenomenon will be? Im tempted to run a 1x wastes for that, lands, d and t and miracles, post board. Path to Exile is annoying, and gq is still backbreaking, if you run into a lands player running it.

Also, who is on mb crucibles? I currently run zero wastelands, in order to run stage, ruin and 2x cavern. Not sure it warrants crucible, perhaps not even in the sb. I am going to wind up being slightly vague about my own choices until after ew, since i am going and i am really going to attempt to rock it.

I ran his list with a few modifications in a small tournament, paired the worst matchups possible, 2 lands, aggro loam and Burning reanimator. On reanimator I went to town with wasteland copied by thespian, then vesuva, and so on. One lands player just comboed on my face early and I mulled to 4 on G2. The second Lands complained I said the match was bad for me, as I locked him out with T1 sol land + monolith + trini followed by 2 golems for sb. And turned the game where he locked me with wasteland + GC by using monolith to dynamo to get to a Ugin that ulted.
The loam match I played poorly as I kept a post hand against a wasteland heavy deck.
I believe trophy is going to make this list need some adjustments, as we'll have to rely more heavily on a chalice for 2. Maybe trade 1 wasteland for a waste, but wasteland was MVP on the 4 games, both for me as against me.
Stage was devastating, its very versatile as you can copy wasteland, cloudpost and escape from back to basics lock by copying basic lands.

I suppose if you're going to run crucible, you should run 4 mox diamonds and 4 trinispheres. An early trini with mox in play can warrant you to wasteland several turns and still cast some stuff. Maybe go serum poweder into a combo-lock oriented deck?

[Stuart]

Any of you guys attending EW and playing MUD? I'll be there but haven't decided on my deck. MUD seems great if the fields leans towards combo and the Blue midrange/control stuff that's been popular lately, but I don't really wanna play 10-11 rounds against DnT and Aggroloam, which have also been putting up numbers. Plus, Ass Trophy seems pretty brutal against our Posts.

[malfie13]

Any of you guys attending EW and playing MUD? I'll be there but haven't decided on my deck. MUD seems great if the fields leans towards combo and the Blue midrange/control stuff that's been popular lately, but I don't really wanna play 10-11 rounds against DnT and Aggroloam, which have also been putting up numbers. Plus, Ass Trophy seems pretty brutal against our Posts.

Hey man. I am going to Eternal weekend, and will probably play The deck. That said, I've been doing a lot of testing vs the major decks. D&T isn't the problem. Agro loan is. Lands doesn't run 4c ga anymore, so it isn't as bad either. Very few decks run astrophy. Really the question is what is your plan for it. I currently run very few 2 drops. I don't mind chalicing 2 if it's important. If I slam a spyglass, see a wasteland deck, name wasteland and chalice 2, I often feel pretty confident. I do wonder about playing a singleton wanted to get around path and astrophy. Dunno tho. It's been long in my mind, just not sure what I'd cut. I also run 2x monolith and 3x dynamo. I don't like getting shut out by daze and wasteland in that order.

[malfie13]

Feel like I need to rewrite that without spell check messing me up, lol.

[bomberman32]

Hey everyone, I am fairly new to MUD, but have been playing legacy for a long time. I took a variety of lists and altered them to fit what I was expecting at my LGC tonight. Ended up going 4-0-1, and the draw was only because my opponent was on stax and we essentially locked each other out. But here is the lists, any changes or suggestions would be appreciated for future events.
Round 1: Burn 2-0
Round 2: Lands 2-0
Round 3: DNT 2-1
Round 4: Grixis Control 2-0
Round 5: Stax 1-1

Maindeck
1x Batterskull
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Grim Monolith
2x Lightning Greaves
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Staff of Domination
3x Thran Dynamo
4x Trinisphere
1x Blightsteel Colossus
3x Kuldotha Forgemaster
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Metalworker
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Walking Ballista
1x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
3x City of Traitors
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
1x Inventors' Fair
1x Thespian's Stage
2x Vesuva
2x Karn, Scion of Urza
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2x Warping Wail

Sideboard
1x All Is Dust
2x Dismember
2x Faerie Macabre
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Warping Wail

[Captain Hammer]

Is there a reason why no one is playing Traxos. Yes the ideal is to metalworker out a huge guy early but you won’t have metalworker every game.

A 4cc 7/7 trampler on turn two is a great way to apply pressure and should be able to win some games by itself (or absorb removal that would have hit something that costs more mana later).


In other news, how bad do we think the assassins trophy phenomenon will be? Im tempted to run a 1x wastes for that, lands, d and t and miracles, post board. Path to Exile is annoying, and gq is still backbreaking, if you run into a lands player running it.

The deck doesn’t need X mana so any basic land should work. I think it would make sense to play a single island or something to fetch with Asstrophy, Path, Vet Expl etc and mislead your opponent into thinking you’re playing Show and Tell or Farie Stompy.

[malfie13]

Hi guys! My buddy ran my mud deck at eternal weekend to a total record of 7 and 4. He had some really crappy matchups early in the tournament, most down the draw. I don't exactly have a tournament report, since I didn't play it. On the other hand I will post my list later, so that y'all can throw darts at it, and we can all learn from it, including me lol.

[Jorruk]

Hi !
haha good idea !
I have recently adopted your idea of ghirapur orrery and it had performed quite well.
However I still need to find a solution for lands and turbo depth as well as show and tell that is appearing a lot recently.
For the latter you still have warping wail for unexpected show and tell couter magic, or chalice & trinisphere to make them struggle to get a S&T/sneak with a creature but it's still not enough for consistent solution.

[malfie13]

I still need to find a solution for lands and turbo depth as well as show and tell that is appearing a lot recently. .

believe it or not, I find DD combo a much harder match than sneak. For sneak I side board in my bridges, senior liberated, and that's about it. I don't find the match horribly out of favor for us, as long as you run enough tax pieces, and as I do 2 staff. My usual line of play is 2 put in staff on the show and tell as long as I have for Mana. You can perpetually tap down their attack before attacks occur. Because they cheat on Mana we are fighting on the same axis. On the other hand, DD combo is basically on interactable for us. Our best defense is still Bridge, but they run decay, and their combo is basically creature based so some of our taxes don't hit them

[Jorruk]

I undertand your point of you, I don't play Karn liberated, maybe that doesn't help. I used to run spine and/or replicant instead but indeed Karn is not a bad idea. I'm still a bit cautious with planeswalkers as we still have taxes effect (lodestone and eventually thorns)
I totally agree with you on DD, it is in instant speed so Ugin doesn't work, not a lot of possible outs. The best way is still emperion with greaves

That is the main struggle with MUD: you can have solution to multiple things but it is not always clear what to bring in MD. I really enjoy sorcerous spyglass, the 2 staff, etc etc but you can't really have everything :p

[BlackHawkX9]

Columbus scg team event report. 6-1 in the legacy seat before our team dropped.

Decklist
4x Metalworker
4x lodestone golem
4x kuldotha forgemaster
3x wurmcoil engine
1x sundering titan
1x steel hellkite
1x blightsteel colossus
1x platinum emperion

4x chalice of the void
4x grim monolith
2x ugin the spirit dragon
2x trinisphere
2x lightning greaves
1x staff of domination
1x sorcerous spyglass
1x spine of ish sah

4x cloudpost
4x glimmerpost
4x ancient tomb
3x city of traitors
3x vesuva
3x cavern of souls
3x wasteland

Sideboard
2x faerie macabre
2x ratchet bomb
3x warping wail
1x wurmcoil engine
1x batterskull
2x thorn of amethyst
1x trading post
1x spine of ish sah
1x staff of nin
1x sorcerous spyglass

MUD tournament report.

Columbus team scg

Rd1 turbo depths 2-0
G1- won the roll, t1 ancient tomb monolith. T1 thoughtsieze took my t2 wurmcoil. T2 stuck lodestone. T2 he durdled. T3 I spyglass naming his hexmage in hand, t3 he needles wasteland. I start the golem beats and he dies.

G2- t1 he inquisitions away my t1 monolith. T1 I top deck monolith, tomb drop monolith. T2 he sylvan scry to go get stage. T2 I jam metalworker tapping my wasteland to cast. T3 he blows his load making token to get it out before my wasteland untaps. I activated metal worker slam ugin, eat token. T4 he draws a pass. T4 I drop lodestone, waste his bayou, and start the pain train.

Out- 1 wurmcoil engine, 1 sundering Titan, 2 trinisphere, 1 spine of ish sah
In- 2 thorn of amethyst, 2 faerie macabre, 1 sorcerous spyglass.

Rd 2 BR reanimater 2-0
G1- won the die roll. Pregame, he revealed 2 chancellor of annex. This changes my plans. T1 I drop city of traitors, play chalice on zero paying the 2 for the Chancellor's. He the draw, land passes. He had 2 lotus petals locked in his hand. T2 float 2 with city, drop cavern, play metalworker. Pass. He draw, passes. T3 I drop lodestone, and wasteland his Badlands, and beat him down.

G2- he pulled to 6, t1 swamp pass. T1 City, thorn of amethyst. T2 land pass. T2 metalworker. T3 he dumps hos whole hand to reanimate chancellor. T3 I drop forgemaster with worker Mana. T4 he bashes and passes. T5 I cast spine to kill his chancellor. T6 he draws and passes. T6 I cast boots. Forgemaster up blightsteel to kill.

Out- 2- ugin, 2 wurmcoil engine, 2 trinisphere, 1 sundering Titan, 1 steel hellkite.
In- 2- faerie macabre, 1 spyglass, 3 warping wail, 2 thorn of amethyst.

Rd3- br reanimater 2-0
G1- t1 thoughtsieze took my chalice. T1 land go. T2 he drew and passed. T2 land pass, spyglass on g-brand, seeing he had ritual, exhume, exhume, g-brand, land, land. T3 he drew and passed. T3 I stick a trinisphere. T4 he draws, pitches g-brand to hand size. T4 I metal worke. T5 he land go. T5 I spine and wasteland both his lands.

He had no discard outlet to drop his g-brand, so he couldn't fight back at all really. But even if he did, spine would have eaten g-brand and wasteland would kept him under trinisphere.

G2- t1 he goes ritual, entomb g-brand, animate dead, I macabre his g-brand. T1-3 is land pass game. And I stick metal worker. He passed back 1 more time and I metal work out 2 lodestone golem and a thorn off the top of my deck. He scooped.

Out-1- sundering Titan, 2- ugin, 2 wurmcoil engine, 2 trinisphere, 1 steel hellkite
In- 2 thorn of amethyst, 3 warping wail, 2 faerie macabre, 1 spyglass.

Rd 4 jund lands 2-0 (from my local area)
G1- t1-t3 was wasteland s back and forth. T4 I tomb, monolith, monolith, lodestone. He ran out of steam. T5 I wasteland him, and lodestone carries to victory.

G2- was a slugfest back and forth, he stuck a dark confidant. He got his wasteland loam engine online the same turn I stuck a metalworker. I got to activate metalworker and drop forgemaster, a lodestone, and another artifact. He drops exploration, and keeps digging into my Mana base. Forgemaster comes online and I hit with lodestone and pass. He drops a tireless tracker and hits another of my lands. I forgemaster for blightsteel end of his turn. He then loses both dudes to soak some infect. And wastelands out my last 2 lands. He had no maze of ith, or chasm or anything else to not die to blightsteel.

Out- 2 trinisphere, 2 ugin, 2 wurmcoil, 1 sundering Titan
In- 1 trading Post, 2 faerie macabre, 2 ratchet bomb, 1 spine of ish sah, 1 spyglass.

Honestly, I didn't like trading Post and extra spine here, and should have just left in the 2 ugin.

Rd 5 sneak and show 2-0
G1- won the roll. T1 Glimmerpost pass. He
Island ponder. T2 ancient tomb metalworker. He cantrips more. T3 cavern on golem drop a lodestone. He cantrips more. T4 I cavern construct, drop forgemaster. Bash lodestone. He drops land, show and tell. He shows g-brand, I stick spine. He draws 7 before g-brand dies to spine. T5 I forgemaster, getting spine to my hand, and tutor up sundering Titan. He gets screwed out of all but 2 of his lands. And beats for the win.

G2- didn't take good notes of this matchup because I locked him out so hard from playing anything beyond 2 cantrips.

Out- 2 ugin, 3 wurmcoil engine, 1 steel hellkite, 1 chalice of the void
In- 3 warping wail, 2 thorn of amethyst as 1 spine of ish sah, 1 trading Post.

Probably should have boarded out the something else instead of 1 chalice, and brought in the sorcerous spyglass also. Was starting to get tilted that I was 5-0 in the legacy seat, and our team was 2-3 in the team event.

Rd 6 grixis delver 2-0
G1- this game was a clogged up slugfest. At one point he had zombie fish, young peezy with a few tokens and then top decked back to back delvers. Wurmcoil held all of that at Bay for enough turns to assemble metal worker staff combo. Post Mana was allowing me to tap the delvers and draw another card each turn, until I found metalworker.

G2- our game ended with me with 2 wurmcoil engines on the field and my opponent with 1 land and a fist full of spells, as I wastelanded him into Oblivion, sticking cavern on wurmcoil was amazing here. He scooped as my 2 team mates lost their matches

Out- 2 trinisphere, 1 lodestone, 1 spyglass.
In- 1 wurmcoil engine, 1 trading Post, I staff of nin, 1 batterskull

This opponent was pouring sweat and offered up the sweatiest handshake I've ever received, from him being so shaken sitting across from me. When we went to sideboard he rather loudly told his team "I hope you guys got this, because I'm not winning this"

Rd7- miracles 0-2
I didn't take notes for this matchup because I tilted so hard because my team lost again and I was getting absolutely shit on by this miracles player. Game one was 30 minutes long of him top decking the exact perfect answer to counter, kill, bottom deck, top deck, mill and counter everything I did, and land a Jace to ride to victory. Game 2 I scooped to him when he countered my first few plays, stuck a t4 Jace, and my opponents officially lost at this moment.

[BlackHawkX9]

I' ll also have a report for my 9-2 finish at eternal weekend.

[malfie13]

I' ll also have a report for my 9-2 finish at eternal weekend.

Looking forward to it!

[Jorruk]

Same, I would really enjoy a report :)

Concerning the team trio report
Really nice run !
I also feel like you were more lucky than me :p It happens quite usually that my opponent forces my chalice/early 3-ball, or champagne start from reanimator opponents.
You seem to side out 3-ball a lot. Have you consider switching it with thorns or anything else ? When 3-ball is not relevant, thorn is usually not relevant either (I can only think of Elves as the exception)
And globally how did you find Trading post ? I also used to run it as a 1-of in the side but as llotv and all the sacrifice package is no more so commonly seen I stopped. a

[TLK]

Had the same question regarding Trinisphere, especially when I saw you sided it out against Reanimator. Is Thorn just better here? Do you not want both?

[BlackHawkX9]

Same, I would really enjoy a report :)

Concerning the team trio report
Really nice run !
I also feel like you were more lucky than me :p It happens quite usually that my opponent forces my chalice/early 3-ball, or champagne start from reanimator opponents.
You seem to side out 3-ball a lot. Have you consider switching it with thorns or anything else ? When 3-ball is not relevant, thorn is usually not relevant either (I can only think of Elves as the exception)
And globally how did you find Trading post ? I also used to run it as a 1-of in the side but as llotv and all the sacrifice package is no more so commonly seen I stopped. a

The boarding out of trinisphere, isn't really as much as this tournament shows. Any deck that gives me the feeling that they can wasteland lock me under my own 3 ball, so all the depths decks with loam, DnT, etc. Also, I've found that br reanimater 3-ball just isn't fast enough, and thorn is a direct 1 for 1 swap. 3-ball stays in against show n tell only if I'm tipped off to omniscience. I mean, we could talk 3-ball in all the matches for a bit.

Trading Post, I wasn't a fan. It only made it in because I brought it in because I put spines back in my 75 for show and tell, but it was too cute, and became a sideboard 3rd ugin for eternal weekend.

[Jorruk]

The boarding out of trinisphere, isn't really as much as this tournament shows. Any deck that gives me the feeling that they can wasteland lock me under my own 3 ball, so all the depths decks with loam, DnT, etc. Also, I've found that br reanimater 3-ball just isn't fast enough, and thorn is a direct 1 for 1 swap. 3-ball stays in against show n tell only if I'm tipped off to omniscience. I mean, we could talk 3-ball in all the matches for a bit.

Trading Post, I wasn't a fan. It only made it in because I brought it in because I put spines back in my 75 for show and tell, but it was too cute, and became a sideboard 3rd ugin for eternal weekend.

I see more clearly your point of view and I can't disagree with you. However I still keep some 3-ball against D&T as it can help to lock them, or at least prevent them to use their rishadan package if they didn't stuck a vial, or we spyglassed it. I prefer to side out chalice as it's just for 4 swords (+ eventually pte) and they can take care of it with flickerwisp.

[malfie13]

Im sorry I didn't respond to the question about traxos. Scary enough, I run it because we just have better for drops to fill the spot. Turn one Thorn makes turn to trinisphere the best for dropping the deck. Also golem as a 4 drop, in some cases t2 worker or dynamo into trini. Staff becomes a t2 play. I just have a clogged t2. It is pretty gross, but is it better than a t2 or 3 wurmcoil? I dont know, but i also dont think so. Might be good sb stuff for d and t or other creature matches.

[malfie13]

Also, unlike steel stompy, we dont run zero drops to untap it on the spot. I often wonder why more of them dont run it, but it really isn't in their main plan.

[BlackHawkX9]

Im sorry I didn't respond to the question about traxos. Scary enough, I run it because we just have better for drops to fill the spot. Turn one Thorn makes turn to trinisphere the best for dropping the deck. Also golem as a 4 drop, in some cases t2 worker or dynamo into trini. Staff becomes a t2 play. I just have a clogged t2. It is pretty gross, but is it better than a t2 or 3 wurmcoil? I dont know, but i also dont think so. Might be good sb stuff for d and t or other creature matches.

I like traxcos as a card, but I'm not sure I like how it functions in our game plan. Yes, it is a big scary beater that hits like a Mack truck. If you think about it as a 4 drop 7/7 it's awesome. But in application, it really costs more since you have to cast artifacts to untap it. So, it costs 4 upfront, but you have to treat it as a 6+ cmc bomb slot, and I'd rather have a wurmcoil all day over traxxos as a 6+ cmc bomb slot. It fits those steel stompy lists much more. They have small spells all day to untap that. You get stuck with a fist full of wurmcoil, sundering Titan, ugin, and blightsteel, unable to untap traxxos one time, and he gets booted. We need to rely on bombs that are big and scary and self sustaining.

[BlackHawkX9]

I see more clearly your point of view and I can't disagree with you. However I still keep some 3-ball against D&T as it can help to lock them, or at least prevent them to use their rishadan package if they didn't stuck a vial, or we spyglassed it. I prefer to side out chalice as it's just for 4 swords (+ eventually pte) and they can take care of it with flickerwisp.

I agree that chalice is fragile against DNT, but chalice vs them never hurts us. I personally have very few times been locked under my own trinisphere, but out at big tournaments when I'm walking around and I find another MUD player, I watch. And I see it alot where they start out strong with a 3-ball, and don't stabilizes and locks them under their own trinisphere. I'd rather not give them the opportunity to do that. And if they have to waste a flicker wisp trigger on my chalice, and not get crazy value flickering their dudes for triggers, ory blockers out of the way, then I'll be happy with that.

[TLK]

Can't wait to read your EW tourney report.

Quick question that has probably already been answered: Since we have access to infinite mana with Metalworker and Staff, does it make sense to include a 1-of Ballista? That gives us an alternate win con staring down a Bridge, for example.

Edit - Also, what's the best strategy against Back to Basics? Is it just auto-lose? Seems tough when Miracles is one of the most popular decks in the format.

[Jorruk]

I agree that chalice is fragile against DNT, but chalice vs them never hurts us. I personally have very few times been locked under my own trinisphere, but out at big tournaments when I'm walking around and I find another MUD player, I watch. And I see it alot where they start out strong with a 3-ball, and don't stabilizes and locks them under their own trinisphere. I'd rather not give them the opportunity to do that. And if they have to waste a flicker wisp trigger on my chalice, and not get crazy value flickering their dudes for triggers, ory blockers out of the way, then I'll be happy with that.

Yes, I see what you are saying. It happend to me once :rolleyes: But usually I don't cast it unless I'm sure I can have access to mana if something goes wrong (other lands in hand, grim, metalworker ...)
Also my sideboard plan generally consists in bringing in 2 warping wail and 2 spyglass and I side out 2 chalice, 1 sundering, and 1 3-ball.


Quick question that has probably already been answered: Since we have access to infinite mana with Metalworker and Staff, does it make sense to include a 1-of Ballista? That gives us an alternate win con staring down a Bridge, for example.
Depending on my mood I sometimes play it. But in that case I reduce the number of forgemaster and go up to 2 staff.

[BlackHawkX9]

Eternal weekend. 9-2 MUD tournament report.

Decklist
4x Metalworker
4x lodestone golem
4x kuldotha forgemaster
3x wurmcoil engine
1x sundering titan
1x steel hellkite
1x blightsteel colossus
1x platinum emperion

4x chalice of the void
4x grim monolith
2x ugin the spirit dragon
2x trinisphere
2x lightning greaves
1x staff of domination
1x sorcerous spyglass
1x spine of ish sah

4x cloudpost
4x glimmerpost
4x ancient tomb
3x city of traitors
3x vesuva
3x cavern of souls
3x wasteland

Sideboard
2x faerie macabre
2x ratchet bomb
3x warping wail
1x wurmcoil engine
1x batterskull
2x thorn of amethyst
1x Ugin, the spirit dragon
1x spine of ish sah
1x staff of nin
1x sorcerous spyglass


MUD tournament report

9-2 at eternal weekend

Rd1 2-1 DnT
G1- he stuck a t1 aether vial, and disrupted my Mana base with his lands enough to cheat in dudes to poke me to death.

G2- I Mulligan to 6, and him to 5. T1 ancient tomb, chalice on one. He has 3 1 drops in his mull to 5. T3 wurmcoil beats him to death, mostly uncontested.

G3- he starts clogging the board with dudes. Revokers my metal worker. Over extended dumping his hand setting up a 2 turn clock. I top deck a monolith, allowing me to take a hit for half bluffing that I got nothing, then slamming an ugin to take over.

Out- 1 blightsteel, 2 lodestone golem, 2 trinisphere, 1 wurmcoil engine, 1 sundering Titan, 1 platinum emperion, 1 spine of ish sah
In- 2 ratchet bomb, 1 sorcerous spyglass, 1 ugin, 3 warping wail, 1 staff of nin, 1 batterskull

Rd2 UB death's shadow 2-1
G1- t1 ancient tomb into chalice on 1. This shut off most of his hand. T2 trinisphere locked him under his 2 lands. T4 platinum emperion sticks and starts the beats.

G2- he had counters for my first 2 locks pieces. Stuck 2 flipped delvers, and beat me down While killing my creatures, and hymn to touraching me.

G3- t1 ancient tomb thorn of amethyst, t2 monolith, t2 he pays 2 for his cantrip. T3 trinisphere. T3 he pays 3 for another cantrip. T4 forgemaster. Wasteland his 3rd land. T5 play a random artifact, and forgemaster get sundering Titan dropping him to zero lands, under a trinisphere.

Out- 2 ugin, 1 wurmcoil engine, 1 spine of ish sah
In- 2 ratchet bomb, 2 thorn of amethyst

Rd3- DnT 1-2
G1-both of us were off to a slow start. A cloudpost, then 3 straight glimmerposts allowed me to keep pace with his little dude pokes. Started dropping big dude after big dude and he couldn't keep up. Sundering Titan proved too big for his triple block trade to clear the way for wurmcoil beats.
G2- he out paced me with a fast batterskull, and beating up on my Mana base.
G3- our board state got rather clogged up rather quickly. He had double aether vial. He started sticking dudes. I finally drew a spyglass to shut off his vials, and I saw his hand of plains, port, recruiter of the guard, and flicker wisp. Then I jam a wurmcoil engine. He top decks and sticks a palace jailer eating my wurmcoil. I top deck a chalice and make a major game losing misplay by casting chalice on 1, instead of on 3, knowing about the flicker wisp and recruiter in his hand. He then flickers his jailer to eat my next threat. Recruiter of the guard to get another flicker wisp, and flicker palace jailer again to eat my next threat.

Out-1 wurmcoil engine, 2 trinisphere 2 lodestone golem, 1 spine of ish say, 1 sundering Titan, 1 platinum emperion
In- 1 ugin, 3 warping wail, 1 staff of nin, 1 batterskull, 2 ratchet bomb

Rd4 Mono red prison 2-1
G1- he stuck a t1 blood moon, he sticks a t3 rabble master. I stick a t3 metal worker as my only hope to land the ugin in my hand. T4 he lands Chandra torch of defiance, and rabble's all over my face.
G2- t1 ancient, monolith, metalworker pass. T1 he sticks a blood moon. T2 I activate metalworker to make 6, play wurmcoil, play greaves with my lands, bash with wurmcoil.
G3- t1 he plays great furnace pass. I wasteland his furnace. T2 he plays another great furnace pass. Ancient tomb pass. T3 he plays land pass. I drop a sorcerous spyglass, naming the Jaya Ballard in his hand. T4 he plays spyglass naming the staff of domination in my hand. T5 he plays blood moon. I top deck boots to go with the wurmcoil in my hand. Make 8, Mana drop wurmcoil with boots and start the pain train.

Out- 4 chalice of the void, 2 trinisphere
In- 2 ratchet bomb, 1 sorcerous spyglass, 1 ugin, 1 wurmcoil engine, 1 staff of nin

Rd5 Mono red prison 2-0
G1- I Mulligan to 6. Win the die roll. T1 cloudpost pass. T1 he powers out magus of the moon. T2 vesuva mountain pass. He casts another magus of the moon. T3 vesuva mountain metalworker. He plays blood moon and continues the magus beats. T4 drop lodestone golem. He drops another moon and passed. T5 I wurmcoil engine. He drops e-bridge. T6 I drop a trinisphere, and chalice on 3 with metalworker mana. T7 I drop chalice on 4. Then we play draw go for a few turns until he scoops realizing he can't cast any of his win conditions with chalice on 3 and 4.

G2- he t1 blood moon. I land go. T2 he slams e-bridge. We play draw go for a few turns. He lands a rabble master. I answer it with a lodestone golem. We play draw go for a few more turns with my golem eating free goblins from rabble master. By this time I have 9 mountains out to slam ugin and he takes 1 more draw and extends the hand.

Out- 1 sundering Titan, 4 chalice of the void, 2 trinisphere, 1 lodestone golem.
In- 1 ugin, 2 ratchet bomb, 1 staff of nin, 1 wurmcoil engine, 1 spine of ish sah, 1 batterskull, 1 spyglass.

I boarded out the sundering Titan and the lodestone this match for the batterskull and 2nd spine for this matchup because this list seemed to rely on e-bridge more than my round 4 moon opponent. And I wanted the extra defense lifegain from b-skull and the extra spine to blow up a bridge if needed rather than the 2 extra dumb bodies.

Rd 6 combo elves 0-2
G1- I won the die roll. T1 ancient tomb chalice on 1. He plays dryad arbor pass. T2 I play cloudpost pass. He land casts visionary to draw. T3 I stick metalworker with an ugin. In my hand. He plays cradle, green sun zenith for wirewood symbiote, casts rec sage from his hand killing chalice, bounces and recasts it killing metalworker. T4 land stick trinisphere. He bounces and replayed sage killing trinisphere, and casts 2 glimpse and combos off with cloudstone curio to get shaman of the pack to kill me.
G2- t1 city of traitors chalice on 1. He plays forest pass. T2 I stick a metal worker. he kills metalworker with abrupt decay. T3 I land pass. He casts rec sage and kills chalice. T4 I land, play ratchet bomb. He glimpse, gets heritage druid and 2 nettle sentinels, engine draws a little and shaman of the pack kills me again.

Out- 3 wurmcoil engine, 1 blightsteel, 1 spine of ish sah, 1 sundering Titan, 1 platinum emperion.
In- 1 ugin, 3 warping wail, 2 ratchet bomb, 1 spyglass

I hate elves. It's my worst matchup.

Rd7- Rg lands 2-0
G1- won the die roll. T1 cloudpost pass. He plays land, diamond, casts loam targeting the 1 land. T2 I play glimmerpost, monolith, lodestone golem. He dredges loam, dredging 2 crop rotation and an exploration. He plays a land and casts loam for 3 with no targets. T3. I play wasteland and start the golem beats. He sets up to try and get depths token. End of his turn I tap out to untap monolith. He crop rotates and blows his load making a token. T4 I stick glimmerpost, slamming ugin, eat his token and keep the golem beats. He scoops.
G2- he Mulligana to 6. T1 Land pass. I ancient tomb, chalice on one. And he gets kinda sad. T2 he durdles. I drop glimmerpost, spyglass naming his rishadon port. T3 he durdles some more. I play land and stick a lodestone golem. . . . He had bad draws and the lodestone tax kept him from getting ahead enough to out race the 5 per turn beats.

Out- 2 trinisphere, 1 spine of ish sah, 1 sundering Titan, 1 wurmcoil engine, 1 lodestone.
In- 1 ugin, 1 spyglass, 2 thorn of amethyst, 2 faerie macabre.

I probably should have taken out another wurmcoil instead of the 4th lodestone golem. It seems like taking their engine with a creature that needs 2 punishing fire to kill is pretty good against them. I'm still kinda toying with my strategy against lands.

Rd8 tezzerator 1-0
G1- we both casted some stuff. He sticks a karn ( 4 drop karn) and starts drawing cards. I stick some other artifacts and a forgemaster. He lands ensnaring bride after I hard cast a blightsteel. I sacrificed 3 artifacts with forgemaster to get platinum emperion, and suit it up with boots. We stale mate durdle some more. At this point I have 4 cloudposts on the field and 3 glimmerposts. I realize, if we stale mate here I'll deck him, cause I can keep drawing blightsteel, and pitching him to hand size over and over. So I wasteland his academy ruins so he can't avoid decking. So, he sticks Jace the mindsculpter, with it on the stack, I sacrificed 3 random things (1 being blightsteel to shuffle it back in) to get spyglass naming Jace. So, we draw, land, go for a few, and I'm just jamming all the artifacts I draw. I get 3 more, sacrificed them, and get staff of domination. With my insane post land Mana, I start drawing like crazy hunting for ugin. He has 3 cards in library, and I have 6 left ( with 2 ugins in it). I draw with staff, finally get ugin. Dropped chalice on 2 and 5 throughout the nonsense trying to stop force and counter spell. Slam ugin, eat his board, pass. He thinks for a minute and scoops it up. Craziest fucking game ever.
G2- we have 11 minutes left on the clock at this point, before sideboarding. We start our game. I play a t1 spyglass, naming the helm of obedience in his hand. ( He boarded in leyline helm combo.) I jam some more random artifacts with boots out. He does stuff and sticks another e-bridge. So I top deck cavern of souls, naming construct, jam the forgemaster in my hand, boots it up, go get platinum emperion again, and move him under boots. So I have 3 nonland permanents out, spyglass on helm, boots, and emperion. And we play into turns and he extended the hand.

Out- 2 wurmcoil engine, 2 trinisphere, 2 lodestone golem.
In- 2 ratchet bomb, 1 spine of ish sah, 1 spyglass, 1 ugin, 1 staff of nin.

Rd9 UB Omni tell 2-0
G1- he Mulligan to 5. I t1 he island, ponders. I ancient tomb, boots. T2 he plays underground sea, and main phase brainstorms, he passes. Land, metalworker, resolves. Boots up, make Mana, slam sundering Titan eating his 2 lands and he scoops it up before I can even really see what he is playing.

I sideboard thinking that he is on UB reanimater.

G2- he casted 6 cantrips in the 1st 4 turns as his only actions outside of land drops.
I t1 I play wasteland. T2 I play ancient tomb, jam staff of domination. T3 I stick boots. T4 I stick monolith setting up for a big next turn. T5 he show and tells. I warping wail, he forces my wail going to 1 last card in hand. He slams emrakul, I stick forgemaster. My turn I jam another boots, use staff to tap emrakul, sac staff,
2nd boots and monolith, getting blightsteel to boots up and kill.

Based on what little of his deck I saw, I didn't know he was on show and tell until he was already fucked.

Out- 3 wurmcoil engine, 2 trinisphere, 1 steel hellkite, 2 ugin.
In- 3 warping wail, 2 thorn of amethyst, 1 spine of ish sah, 2 faerie macabre.
I boarded thinking he was on UB reanimater.

Start of day 2.
Rd10 DNT 2-0
G1- won the die roll. Mulligan to 6. T1 cloudpost, pass. Plains mom. T2 vesuva copy post. Play monolith. He drops revokers naming monolith, poke with Mom. T3 glimmerpost wurmcoil engine. He drops 2nd mom and stoneforge. Overextending to try and go over wurmcoil. T4 I play another cloudpost, stick ugin, and I take over from there.

G2- t1 plains. Vial pass. Ancient tomb spyglass naming his vial seeing he had a 2nd on in hand and only 2 total lands, 2 path to exile, and a council's judgement. T2 he plays land and 2nd vial. I stick chalice on 1. T3 He misses his land drop and passes. I play land, and stick metal worker. T4 he missed another land drop and passes. I activate metalworker, drop staff of domination, and go infinite.

Out- 1 platinum emperion, 1 lodestone golem, 1 sundering Titan, 1 spine of ish sah, 2 trinisphere, 2 wurmcoil engines.
In- 1 staff of nin, 1 spyglass, 1 ugin, 2 ratchet bomb, 3 warping wail.

Rd11 jeskai stoneblade 2-0
G1- won the die roll. T1 ancient tomb chalice on 1. He plays land pass. T2 glimmerpost trinisphere. Land pass. T3 glimmerpost, pass. He plays land stoneforge for jitte. T4 cloudpost. Spyglass naming stoneforge. He casts jitte. And pokes me with stoneforge. T5 glimmerpost, wurmcoil engine. Land, true name Nemesis. T6 he has a counter spell in hand but can't cast it because of trinisphere. I play glimmerpost, jam ugin. Eat his board. He draws and passes keeping up his counter spell. T7 ugin bolt, cavern of souls on construct, stick metalworker as a blocker for ugin. He draws plays land pass. I ugin bolt him for a couple turns and stick a wurmcoil to block after baiting the counterspell with a lodestone. He goes to 1 life and top decks a council's judgement for ugin to stabilize. And sticks a stoneforge. He speed bumps wurmcoil, then casts batterskull to continue stabilizing. I drop a sundering Titan eat 3 lands and he can't keep up.

G2- t1 Land pass. Ancient tomb, chalice on 1. T2 stoneforge getting batterskull. I cavern construct drop metalworker. T3 he land pass. I make metalworker mana, cast trinisphere, it gets forced. Land forgemaster. End of turn he cheats in batterskull. T4 he bashes batterskull, bounces off forgemaster. I cast monolith, ratchet bomb, and boots. I sac metal worker, r-bomb and monolith to get a sundering Titan to eat all 3 of his lands. He draws no lands for 2 turns and scoops.

Out- 4 lodestone, 2 trinisphere, 1 wurmcoil engine, 1 spine of ish sah, 1 metal worker.
In- 3 warping wail, 2 ratchet bomb, 1 spyglass, 1 ugin, 1 staff of nin, 1 batterskull.

[ryscott85]

Congratulations on your finish! The deck seems solid! What are your thoughts on your current 75? It looks as though the third ugin from the board did work; would you advocate keeping that there over any other options? What are your thoughts on spellskite? On paper it seems like it’d be A worthwhile inclusion somewhere in the 75. Inventors fair also seems useful, however; it may be too cute and the lands suite already looks perfect. How do you feel MUD is positioned in the current meta? Most seem to think eldrazi post is the premier post deck of the meta..

[BlackHawkX9]

Congratulations on your finish! The deck seems solid! What are your thoughts on your current 75? It looks as though the third ugin from the board did work; would you advocate keeping that there over any other options? What are your thoughts on spellskite? On paper it seems like it’d be A worthwhile inclusion somewhere in the 75. Inventors fair also seems useful, however; it may be too cute and the lands suite already looks perfect. How do you feel MUD is positioned in the current meta? Most seem to think eldrazi post is the premier post deck of the meta..

I really like most of my 75 as is. I change out like 2-4 main deck and 2-5 sideboard based on meta.

3rd ugin in the board was way better than I expected. I dunno what took me so long to put in in the board. Ugin is just a major "I win button" vs so many decks.

I'm not huge on spell skite. It feels too defense. And I try to play more like an uncontrollable landslide of deal with me or die.

I like inventor's fair as a card. But with my style of play, I want those tutored up artifacts in play, not in my hand. If I were playing a stack style of play, with crucible of worlds, I'd be more open to inventor's fair.

I was chatting with Jody Keith at eternal weekend, who was on mono green eldrazi post, with candelabras. He scrubbed out in the 5th or 6th round. He thinks the deck is bonkers. But, I'm not really impresed with it. I didn't like mono brown eldrazi post, when I tried it. Either variant feels like modern Tron. Ramp, slam big dumb shit, play at top deck mode at all time.

I think mud is decently positioned in this current meta. Everything is in flux, and everyone is still trying to find what the next top tier decks actually are. Miracles in its current state seems to be worse for us than it has been in a while. It's an annoying matchup.

[malfie13]

Hey blackhawk, which sounds funny since we both know each other by real names, lol. That said, I had one question, why staff of nin? Is it because the t2 to 3 is sonclogged? I have found that another draw engine isbmore than fine, and found new karn sub par, but staff seems odd. It just eats a counter and comes down tapping down more of our mana. I never say win more, because that is literally what we are good at: frontrunning.

Comment is that I love the third ugin, too. I've been high on the idea as well. Its just too good to ignore as an idea.

[malfie13]

Not taking any of blackhawk's thunder, ofc. This was the list my buddy took to 7 and 4. I don't have a report, bc i didn't run it this year. What he did say was that spyglass was good mb vs decks you'd expect, and that combo isnvery play draw dependent. Welcome to the muddy tourney world. I will put a couple of pieces of my philosophy of deck building at the end.

Deck: Legacy MUD Eternal Weekend 2018.dec

Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:17
1 Walking Ballista
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus

Artifacts:18
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Grim Monolith
1 Lightning Greaves
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Staff of Domination
2 Trinisphere
1 Coercive Portal
2 Thran Dynamo
1 Spine of Ish Sah

Others:2
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:24
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Buried Ruin
3 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Vesuva

Sideboard:15
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Tsabo's Web
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 All Is Dust
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Karn Liberated

1: I obviously expected more reanimator and dredge than there was.

2: Totally agree with Blackhawk. All is dust in the board should be ugin no 3 and (my opinion) either an artifact based sweeper like nevs disc or o stone.

3: I correctly assumed there would be very few Leovold running around, so I cut down the fetching aspect of the deck in the interest of drawing the deck with staff and going infinite or playing blightsteel that way.

4: I feel ballista is still great when the above is your plan. Onviously, you can tap down the opposing team with staff snd swing with a lethal steel hellkite or blightsteel, but i also like just being able to not swing, and still win. Also ballista is bonkers vs infect, d and t and elves, etc.

Anyway. I thought I would add my two cents here. I dunno if I would have run better than my buddy with his matches, but I definitely would have enjoyed playing MUD this event as much or more with mine! Except k command decks. F that card. Lol.

[malfie13]

Ps, do not hate. Im well aware there are 61 cards mb. Its lucky for me, so there is that. Running joke in my meta, lol.

[BlackHawkX9]

Hey blackhawk, which sounds funny since we both know each other by real names, lol. That said, I had one question, why staff of nin? Is it because the t2 to 3 is sonclogged? I have found that another draw engine isbmore than fine, and found new karn sub par, but staff seems odd. It just eats a counter and comes down tapping down more of our mana. I never say win more, because that is literally what we are good at: frontrunning.

Comment is that I love the third ugin, too. I've been high on the idea as well. Its just too good to ignore as an idea.

I used to run multiple coercive portal as my draw engine cards. But after the agressive discard from the deathrite decks kinda faded some, I figured I could be 1 turn slower to have the added utility of staff of nin, for pinging DNT creatures, baleful stryx, snap casters, poking Planeswalkers in a pinch, dmg over ensnaring bride decks, or even just to the face. Discard is still out tgere, yes, but it doesn't seem as fast and agressive as it once was.

I always like the thought of ugin ten fold over all is dust. But I was really happy with the 3rd ugin in th board. It was way better than I expected it would be.

[Jorruk]

Congrats Blackhawk !
I like your list, as I like the spicier list of malfie :p
Concerning the 3rd Ugin, I also tried it, but I also liked having a splash between all is dust and ugin because of DnT revoker or similar effects.

[BlackHawkX9]

Congrats Blackhawk !
I like your list, as I like the spicier list of malfie :p
Concerning the 3rd Ugin, I also tried it, but I also liked having a splash between all is dust and ugin because of DnT revoker or similar effects.

This is also why i have such a diverse sideboard. Ugin Wrecks DnT. With revoker on Ugin, i still have ratchet bomb, staff of nin pokey pokey, 3 warping wail or even steel hellkite in a pinch to try and deal with it, and even Spine of ish sah, if i'm really in a pinch. Most of the time, i've found that DnT players have been naming revoker on my monolith and metalworker to stop me from having the mana to cast Ugin, and just racing me with dudes.

[Jorruk]

This is also why i have such a diverse sideboard. Ugin Wrecks DnT. With revoker on Ugin, i still have ratchet bomb, staff of nin pokey pokey, 3 warping wail or even steel hellkite in a pinch to try and deal with it, and even Spine of ish sah, if i'm really in a pinch. Most of the time, i've found that DnT players have been naming revoker on my monolith and metalworker to stop me from having the mana to cast Ugin, and just racing me with dudes.

Yup I see that, and I agree, in fact All is dust is less good than Ugin. (Except against reanimator I guess, but it is still a bit long)

[BlackHawkX9]

Yup I see that, and I agree, in fact All is dust is less good than Ugin. (Except against reanimator I guess, but it is still a bit long)

Against reanimater, they only ever have the one threat. So, if you pay 7 for all is dust, why not just cast spine of ish sah, and not dilute your precious sideboard slots.

[Airwave]

REPORT

Thanks for the report! Interesting reading. Good to see that MUD can still put up a (very) good fight! :smile:

Reading through it I saw you boarded differently throughout the three D&T matches, is there any particular reason for that or just decision at the moment?

[malfie13]

Yup I see that, and I agree, in fact All is dust is less good than Ugin. (Except against reanimator I guess, but it is still a bit long)

I mean we are pretty dead to reanimator without bridge, or sb cards, so there is that. Hi sire, g2? Lol. All is dust is a beating on them. So is bridge, plus ugin, minus ugin.

[malfie13]

Also kind of matters if we were on play with an uncontensted t1 worker. Reaninator is much less good on the back foot.

[malfie13]

This is also why i have such a diverse sideboard. Ugin Wrecks DnT. With revoker on Ugin, i still have ratchet bomb, staff of nin pokey pokey, 3 warping wail or even steel hellkite in a pinch to try and deal with it, and even Spine of ish sah, if i'm really in a pinch. Most of the time, i've found that DnT players have been naming revoker on my monolith and metalworker to stop me from having the mana to cast Ugin, and just racing me with dudes.

As bad as it is for dnt, their best path to victory for them vs us is 100pct vial into consistent mana denial. Hope we dont get a spyglass down on how they planned on denying us or removal for a key revoker.

[BlackHawkX9]

Thanks for the report! Interesting reading. Good to see that MUD can still put up a (very) good fight! :smile:

Reading through it I saw you boarded differently throughout the three D&T matches, is there any particular reason for that or just decision at the moment?

I don't keep a written down sideboard guide. So, it is always in the moment for me. My sideboard plan vs DnT is usually the same. I typically change how I sideboard in the moment based on what I see that is a slight variation from the standard lists. Some lists run palace jailer, some run more mirran crusader,

[BlackHawkX9]

I mean we are pretty dead to reanimator without bridge, or sb cards, so there is that. Hi sire, g2? Lol. All is dust is a beating on them. So is bridge, plus ugin, minus ugin.

I dislike bridge. I've tried it many times, and I can't find a way that I like bridge in my build. . Ya, sure. We just straight lose to t1 sire of insanity without like a faerie macabre, but they have the t1 sire hand like 10% of the time. This is why I keep my sideboard very diverse, and just take my 10% of the time lumps, and t1 lock them out the rest of the time with chalice, thorn, trinisphere, lodestone, etc and hold faerie macabre and warping wail as responses.

[malfie13]

I dislike bridge. I've tried it many times, and I can't find a way that I like bridge in my build. . Ya, sure. We just straight lose to t1 sire of insanity without like a faerie macabre, but they have the t1 sire hand like 10% of the time. This is why I keep my sideboard very diverse, and just take my 10% of the time lumps, and t1 lock them out the rest of the time with chalice, thorn, trinisphere, lodestone, etc and hold faerie macabre and warping wail as responses.

Lol, that is a pretty realistic assessment. I also bring in bridge vs sneak, omni, and Mavericks. I feel like behind a bridge we are favored vs each, unless Mavericks or a loam deck slams a relevant Walker. I usually also side in an ulamog or two vs each of these, and then use it to exile bridge plus blocker and kill with an alpha strike or perhaps just ugin being the worlds most expensive, and best, bolt snap bolt snap bolt....

[BlackHawkX9]

Lol, that is a pretty realistic assessment. I also bring in bridge vs sneak, omni, and Mavericks. I feel like behind a bridge we are favored vs each, unless Mavericks or a loam deck slams a relevant Walker. I usually also side in an ulamog or two vs each of these, and then use it to exile bridge plus blocker and kill with an alpha strike or perhaps just ugin being the worlds most expensive, and best, bolt snap bolt snap bolt....

Let me argue my point as to why I'd rather use something else over bridge in all those matchups.
Sneak and show- if you drop a spyglass on sneak, they are much less explosive and scary. And if they show and tell and stick a fatty. More often than not, our show is better. ( Staff taps any of the fatties and we just poke them dead with whatever. Blightsteel beats grisel brand or anything that isn't emrakul. Platinum emperion beats anything that isn't emrakul. Spine blows up anything they drop. Forgemaster gets staff or any of the other tools. We already have the tools to beat sneak and show, it's just nice having the little extra safety of warping wail and stuff. We don't need bridge.

Omnitell- bridge does nothing against them. They show in Omni, we still bridge or even spine of ish sah on Omni. The use a free with Omni cunning wish, or free cantrip into wish to rebuild/ echoing truth bridge or split second stifle spine, and they kill us anyway. Omni is harder than other matchups than some. I usually have best success by taxing them out with thorn, lodestone, with warping wail backup. They seem to struggle paying 5+ for a show and tell, and pay for the tax on a force to stop our wail.

Maverick- if we land ugin, this game is over. The hard part about Maverick is them knight of reliquary to get all 4 wastelands stopping us from getting too big Mana. I really don't like bridge here because they just assault our Mana base until we can't cast things, and then our hand incidentally fills up and opens the bridge.

I love bridge as a card. But I feel like there have just become way too many answers and tools to get around, under, or over bridge. Plus, people already bring in artifact hate against us, so bridge just does to all that.

Got any other matchups that you want bridge?

[Jorruk]

I tend to agree with Blackhawck, on the paper bridge is good but usually it's underwhelming.
Like he said, we have a lot of other solutions and bridge can easily be taken down by those decks. I have been playing with bridge and the only case I find it good is turbo depth (and even there, they can answer with Decay and Ass trophy)
RG Lands - it's already a bad MU and we should more go on the tax + GY plan. They will side in Krosan Grip and be sure to have it in hand before Marit Lage.

[Jorruk]

Hi everyone,

I have a question about a deck that does not see a lot of play but with which I have maybe a 10% winrate... I am talking about Goblins.
I just can't handle them, unless we are on the play with chalice for 1, the goblin lacquey is destroying us, and they can just destroy our whole board ... How do you do to fight them ?
They have vial -> chalice, trinisphere and taxe are less relevant.
Ugin is too slow
Wurmcoil can buy some time but that's it

[BlackHawkX9]

Hi everyone,

I have a question about a deck that does not see a lot of play but with which I have maybe a 10% winrate... I am talking about Goblins.
I just can't handle them, unless we are on the play with chalice for 1, the goblin lacquey is destroying us, and they can just destroy our whole board ... How do you do to fight them ?
They have vial -> chalice, trinisphere and taxe are less relevant.
Ugin is too slow
Wurmcoil can buy some time but that's it

Game 1 is hard for us. I haven't played against the newest rendition of goblins recently, but I played the matchup alot before. They usually only run 1 artifact destroy ability in main deck, so if you can get a platinum emperion under boots, game one can take all the time you need to slam ugin and lock it up.

G2-3 gets a little tricky. Warping wail is a godsend here, since they hinge on so many x/1's . Ratchet bomb doesn't do much since they have so many different cmc's. I would lean on spyglass shutting off the new bane of our exsistance, goblin cratermaker, and warping wail.

I've considered bringing back torpor orb into my sideboard as tech vs elves, dn't, and it would work vs goblins too. Either way, if they go t1 lackey, and you don't have anything, you are in trouble.

Other good tools vs goblins could be walking ballista. I don't run any ballista, but it would work here.

With my list, I'd bring in 3 warping wail, 2 spyglass, and an ugin. Board out 2 trinisphere, 1 spine of ish sah, 1 sundering Titan, 2( lodestone on the play, chalice on the draw)

[malfie13]

Hi everyone,

I have a question about a deck that does not see a lot of play but with which I have maybe a 10% winrate... I am talking about Goblins.
I just can't handle them, unless we are on the play with chalice for 1, the goblin lacquey is destroying us, and they can just destroy our whole board ... How do you do to fight them ?
They have vial -> chalice, trinisphere and taxe are less relevant.
Ugin is too slow
Wurmcoil can buy some time but that's it

Hi agree with the above. The matches are hard. I think that spyglass is great. It can be particularly good on vial, waste or port and ofc their destruction, mr crater maker. Also, yeah, wail or contortions are great answers to whatever the lynchpin of their strategy is. Ugin or all is dust will mop up the pieces if we survive with mana past t3 or 4.

[malfie13]

They too rely on the top of their deck, run mana light and lean hard on vial. If you run wasteland and spyglass mb, you've got more than a decent chance g1 to just lock em out without a t2 lackey. Metalworker also does a decent job blocking, just as de as deathrite did before it.

[Jorruk]

Hi,
Ty all for your answers
I agree with your answers, I may have been unlucky with their T1 lackey and then super aggro start ^^ (or settler, cratermaker, trashmaster ...)
Globally I was also siding the same things, siding out trinisphere, sundering titan, spine, and chalice (all the 4, they have vial and cavern) but i never survived enough to slam a Ugin.

I will theoretically go in a large event next event, I will tell you how the deck performs

[BlackHawkX9]

Hi,
Ty all for your answers
I agree with your answers, I may have been unlucky with their T1 lackey and then super aggro start ^^ (or settler, cratermaker, trashmaster ...)
Globally I was also siding the same things, siding out trinisphere, sundering titan, spine, and chalice (all the 4, they have vial and cavern) but i never survived enough to slam a Ugin.

I will theoretically go in a large event next event, I will tell you how the deck performs

Good luck at your next event. . Also, remember, there isn't physically enough sideboard space to prepare for every deck. Sometimes you just gotta take your lumps from the occasional off meta strategy. I have 5+ years experience on MUD, and I still take my lumps from elves all the time. You can have a plan for every matchup that at least helps in the match, but you can't sideboard enough to turn every match into a 90/10 win rate.

[Jorruk]

Thank you :)

And yes, that's for sure ^^
I might be going into sideboard hate more intensively, as I play an urborg I'm still hesitating between 3 faerie macabre and 4 leylines. Both have their pros and cons but I'm seeing quite a lot of Reanimator and dredge, also leylines help against Loam & RG Lands. On the other hand 4 slots is a lot.
As we mentionned earlier I may also cut a kuldotha for a ballista. With the delvers running around I enjoy having the possibility to wrath the board with hellkite. I will share you my list once it is finished

[Jorruk]

Hi everyone !
A quick report about the event I attended last sunday.
We were 65 at the beginning of the tournament and ready to battle for a dual (First goes with a volcanic island -> badlands -> savannah -> plateau)
My decklist is the following :


// Arpenteurs (2)
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Créatures (19)
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Steel Hellkite
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Walking Ballista
1 Blightsteel Colossus
// Sorts (15)
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Staff of Domination
2 Trinisphere
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Lightning Greaves
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
// Terrains (24)
2 Vesuva
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Cloudpost
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Wasteland
4 Glimmerpost
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Inventor's Fair
// SIDE DECK (15)
SB: 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 1 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Staff of Nin
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Warping Wail

I ended up at 5-2 having faced the following decks
R1 (L) - Instant reanimator (decklist can be found here (https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=18254&d=313192&f=LE) or something similar to this)
R2 (L) - Burn
R3 (W) - UR Rea
R4 (W) - Jund depth (interesting mix of BGr good stuff, smallpox and loam + depth package)
R5 (W) - Sneak and Show
R6 (W) - Grixis Control
R7 (W) - ???

I will post a more detailed report in the next few days. But globally the deck felt strong except 2 games where it just trolled me so hard (R1 : Keep a hand with 4 lands and some disruption, I drew only lands and grim monolith until I draw a blightsteel that got discarded .... to be drawn back the following turn...)

I was waiting for more delver/D&T, explaining the addition of Ballista in place of a Kuldotha.

Additionnal "fun" fact, I was deckchecked between R1 and R2 (maybe because my deck is pimped ?) and, as I was worried about, I got a warning for marked sleeves. I have the habit of using the same sleeves for all my decks, so some cards are a bit more used that others. Usually before larger event I change my sleeves but this day I had only something like 50 sleeves and I considered that it would be worse to have new and old ones. As no pattern was detectable he allowed me to play the R2 and I just had to change the sleeves between R2 and R3. Additionnaly he considered that one of my foil chalice was bent, and that it was recognizable (you know the technique where you make your deck fall from something like 10-20 cm and the deck will separate in two piles, the piles beeing separated by the bent card). I asked him to show me, and on 4 tests, not a single one revealed twice the same cards, and not a single one of them revealed the supposedly bent chalice. I still had to change it for the R3. Luckily a vendor was on site and agreed to lend me a chalice for the tournament.
Anyway, I got a bit salty after all this and may have not been in the best mood for facing a MU that I usually consider favored.

[BlackHawkX9]

Additionnal "fun" fact, I was deckchecked between R1 and R2 (maybe because my deck is pimped ?) and, as I was worried about, I got a warning for marked sleeves. I have the habit of using the same sleeves for all my decks, so some cards are a bit more used that others. Usually before larger event I change my sleeves but this day I had only something like 50 sleeves and I considered that it would be worse to have new and old ones. As no pattern was detectable he allowed me to play the R2 and I just had to change the sleeves between R2 and R3. Additionnaly he considered that one of my foil chalice was bent, and that it was recognizable (you know the technique where you make your deck fall from something like 10-20 cm and the deck will separate in two piles, the piles beeing separated by the bent card). I asked him to show me, and on 4 tests, not a single one revealed twice the same cards, and not a single one of them revealed the supposedly bent chalice. I still had to change it for the R3. Luckily a vendor was on site and agreed to lend me a chalice for the tournament.
Anyway, I got a bit salty after all this and may have not been in the best mood for facing a MU that I usually consider favored.

I made the switch to perfect hard inner sleeves to try and avoid this, as my MUD deck has alot of foils also. Everyone I've talked to about this swears by the perfect hards. It does make the deck feel like an edh deck, but if it saves from this kind of nonsense, then I'm all for it.

[Jorruk]

I made the switch to perfect hard inner sleeves to try and avoid this, as my MUD deck has alot of foils also. Everyone I've talked to about this swears by the perfect hards. It does make the deck feel like an edh deck, but if it saves from this kind of nonsense, then I'm all for it.

Thanks for the advice, are you talking about the KMC brand ? or other manufacturers also do so ?

[BlackHawkX9]

Thanks for the advice, are you talking about the KMC brand ? or other manufacturers also do so ?
I bought kmc perfect hard. Just for my MUD. They are too fat for me to plan everything switching to these.

[Jorruk]

Hi everyone !
A quick report about the event I attended last sunday.
We were 65 at the beginning of the tournament and ready to battle for a dual (First goes with a volcanic island -> badlands -> savannah -> plateau)
My decklist is the following :



I ended up at 5-2 having faced the following decks
R1 (L) - Instant reanimator (decklist can be found here (https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=18254&d=313192&f=LE) or something similar to this)
R2 (L) - Burn
R3 (W) - UR Rea
R4 (W) - Jund depth (interesting mix of BGr good stuff, smallpox and loam + depth package)
R5 (W) - Sneak and Show
R6 (W) - Grixis Control
R7 (W) - ???

I will post a more detailed report in the next few days. But globally the deck felt strong except 2 games where it just trolled me so hard (R1 : Keep a hand with 4 lands and some disruption, I drew only lands and grim monolith until I draw a blightsteel that got discarded .... to be drawn back the following turn...)

I was waiting for more delver/D&T, explaining the addition of Ballista in place of a Kuldotha.

Additionnal "fun" fact, I was deckchecked between R1 and R2 (maybe because my deck is pimped ?) and, as I was worried about, I got a warning for marked sleeves. I have the habit of using the same sleeves for all my decks, so some cards are a bit more used that others. Usually before larger event I change my sleeves but this day I had only something like 50 sleeves and I considered that it would be worse to have new and old ones. As no pattern was detectable he allowed me to play the R2 and I just had to change the sleeves between R2 and R3. Additionnaly he considered that one of my foil chalice was bent, and that it was recognizable (you know the technique where you make your deck fall from something like 10-20 cm and the deck will separate in two piles, the piles beeing separated by the bent card). I asked him to show me, and on 4 tests, not a single one revealed twice the same cards, and not a single one of them revealed the supposedly bent chalice. I still had to change it for the R3. Luckily a vendor was on site and agreed to lend me a chalice for the tournament.
Anyway, I got a bit salty after all this and may have not been in the best mood for facing a MU that I usually consider favored.


So for the report:
R1 : Instant reanimator
G1 : I lose the toss but I know he is on Bw reanimator so I keep a hand based on t1 metalworker. He goes T1 fetch and nothing, I do T1 ancient tomb, grim monolith, metalworker.
EoT he entombs Grisel.
T2 he reanimates Grisel with shallow grave, draw 14 cards, swing for 7 and draw another 7 cards. Then with various discards he ripped apart my hand leaving me with greaves and another artifact.
I draw the magical wurmcoil, reveal 3 artifacts in hand, play it, play greaves and attack him for lethal.
He sighs as he drew nothing out of 21 cards and I have drawn one of the 7 seven cards I needed.


G2 : I keep a land heavy hand with the hope of drawing some gaz. Unfortunately discard coupled with drawing so many lands or blightsteel colossus (that got discarded and drawn the following turn !) makes me do nothing but play land and grim ...
G3 is more interesting with me locking the game with lodestone golem and thorn. He is also manaflooded but still succesfully plays a lotv as I get flooded by lands, grim and a staff of domination. He manages to make me sacrifice lodestone to then reanimate it. I am forced to ping myself with ancient tomb to tap it before attack. Finally I draw nothing and lose beaten by my own lodestone. Where are my creatures ?

R2 : Burn - on the draw
G1 I got destroyed by a super fast clock consisting of multiple prices, goblin guide and swiftspear.
G2 I got the god hand against burn : T1 chalice on 1. T2 thorn, T3 chalice on 2. T4 wurmcoil, T5 wurmcoil. He concedes as soon as he sees the second wurmcoil
G3 : He starts with a suspended riftbolt, I play a T1 thorn. He follows by paying for the rift bolt and play a land. T2 I play land and a grim. T3 He bolts my face. I play wurmcoil engine and pass. T4 land go. He smashes to smithereens my wurm in attack phase. I estimate I already left enough life with my ancient tomb, and as I am afraid of price I hold the 2 others I have in hand, at least as long as I can't cast another wurm or preferably a chalice on 2. T5 land go. He let me attack with the wurms and I gain 3 life. EoT price of progress. T6 nothing. I want to attack but he prices me and kill me with fireblast.

R3 : UR rea - on the draw
G1 He starts the game by revealing a chancellor. Play a land unmask and hesitates between metalworker and grim, he finally goes for grim as I only have a ancient tomb (and a scryed cavern but he doesn't know that). I land a ancient tomb and pass. T2 he reanimates the chancellor (after discarding it end of turn). I land a cavern on construct and play metalworker getting rid of the chancellor trigger. T3 he attacks and unmask to make me discard wurmcoil . I draw an artifact that lets me cast greaves and kuldotha. I also play a chalice for zero to sacrifice everything except greaves and attack with blightsteel.
G2 He reanimates a T2 Sire of insanity and I hesitate to scoop but hey, let's try. I drew a second cloudpost and pass. He draws useless card and I jam a lodestone.
He then draws many useless cards (either land or non reanimating stuff) and my board is developping. Finally I win with variosu creatures.

R4 : Jund depth - on the play
G1 I slam a chalice on 1, he makes a sad face and said ok.
I naturally draw many lodestones golems that got me the game through strix. I eventually saw a thespian stage but no loam so I didn't really got worried of depths. I only saw punishing fire that is the only reason I sided in faerie macabre.
G2 Nothing very interesting here. I forced him to put marit lage into play to block my wurmcoil to then cast Ugin and exile it. Leading to me winning the game.

R5 : Sneak and show on the draw
G1 I win by searching for a spine of ish sah with inventor's fair when S&T is on the stack. Then beats of wurmcoil and lodestone lead me to victory.
G2 : sorcerous spyglass on Grisel (little misplay here) and multiple taxes effect prevent him to to cast sneak attack, I got the S&T plan covered by a spine in hand.

R6 : Grixis control
G1 Win thanks to taxes and blightsteel with greaves
G2 He slammed a blood moon followed by ensnaring bridge and bitterblossom, aouch ... I sided out the spine so there was no out for ensnaring bridge except the one ballista and ugin. I was able to slam a platinum emperion protected with greaves when I was a little bit under 10 lifes with him with approx 4 faeries. From there I got the game, destrying all his basics with sundering titan and drawing like crazy with staff to finally find a ugin, wrath the board and start to ping.

R7 :
No show


Sorry for all the mispelling, I wrote it in a hurry.
Any feedback is appreciated :)

[Jorruk]

Additionnaly, if some people are interested I keep a data sheet for the year.
Unfortunately this year I was not very conscientious when filling it, so a lot of FNM / online games are missing.
Anyway, just wanted to share it, it may be interesting for some peole.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iE-pnBJnIi0vXjUt6IXazmCPpPG8hatbbbuQPuUxEtE/edit?usp=sharing

[BlackHawkX9]

Additionnaly, if some people are interested I keep a data sheet for the year.
Unfortunately this year I was not very conscientious when filling it, so a lot of FNM / online games are missing.
Anyway, just wanted to share it, it may be interesting for some peole.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iE-pnBJnIi0vXjUt6IXazmCPpPG8hatbbbuQPuUxEtE/edit?usp=sharing

That's a pretty cool spreadsheet. I like it alot. Have you considered grabbing the posted tournament reports from this forum that people post to expand on the sample size. I know i have atleast 3 good tournament reports on here from this past year.

[malfie13]

@jorruk, I have a 95pct foil deck. I also use the kmc hards with dragon shield mate outer. Never had an issue with decks missing deck checks or any discernable uneven wear. And they dont bend. Which is good. Lol. Good on you for the results and report!

[Jorruk]

Hi all,

I have not checked the forum during the holidays, so sorry for the delay :p
Indeed it is a good idea Blackhawk ! But I'm a little worried since we are all using slightly different brews. I can make a spreadsheet with my only results for 2019 and another with the one I can find. I will do this.

If any of you want the spreadsheet just ask me with private message (I am not sure formulas are visible in "view mode")
I don't know if you have checked other tabs but I also did (I have to admit I largely inspired myself from one that I found) a spreadsheet about chances you have to get X cards according to your mulligans, the number of cards in your deck, etc etc.

[Jorruk]

@jorruk, I have a 95pct foil deck. I also use the kmc hards with dragon shield mate outer. Never had an issue with decks missing deck checks or any discernable uneven wear. And they dont bend. Which is good. Lol. Good on you for the results and report!

Thanks, I will definitely invest in these. For now I have KMC perfect fit with the horrible CFB sleeves, it was the only available there but I hate the feeling when you are shuffling.

[BlackHawkX9]

Is anyone else going to be at the SCG team event in March in Cincinnati, or at the Niagra falls Legacy GP in April? I will hopefully be getting to go to those events and have tournament reports to share from these.

[Jorruk]

I would not be able to go to this event (coming from the UE) but I would happily recover your data :)

[BlackHawkX9]

So, I'm preparing for upcoming events and I was contemplating the UW control matchup. Does anyone have a good strategy that they have been successfully using vs this new version of UW control that seems to be more difficult for us with them beefing up on hard counters, more removal and just Planeswalkering is to death?

I've been leaning more on baiting as many counters as I can to successfully land an ugin, which usually carries the match to victory fairly well. But, I feel like I want more against them. I'm starting to contemplate using staff of nin as a potential victory condition, ontop of it's value generation.

In my experience so far, this matchup demands ratchet bombs to even have a dream of beating back to basics. Also, they seem to keep all of their creature removal in, so trying to get fatties to stick long enough seems out of the question. Sundering Titan is still a beast against UW control that demolishes their lands, so that stays in.

Any input would be helpful. Thanks.

[Airwave]

So, I'm preparing for upcoming events and I was contemplating the UW control matchup. Does anyone have a good strategy that they have been successfully using vs this new version of UW control that seems to be more difficult for us with them beefing up on hard counters, more removal and just Planeswalkering is to death?

I've been leaning more on baiting as many counters as I can to successfully land an ugin, which usually carries the match to victory fairly well. But, I feel like I want more against them. I'm starting to contemplate using staff of nin as a potential victory condition, ontop of it's value generation.

In my experience so far, this matchup demands ratchet bombs to even have a dream of beating back to basics. Also, they seem to keep all of their creature removal in, so trying to get fatties to stick long enough seems out of the question. Sundering Titan is still a beast against UW control that demolishes their lands, so that stays in.

Any input would be helpful. Thanks.

Voltaic Key might be a way to dodge Back to Basics, I'd recommend 1 or 2 max, because of Chalice nonbo.

[BlackHawkX9]

Voltaic Key might be a way to dodge Back to Basics, I'd recommend 1 or 2 max, because of Chalice nonbo.

I've never been huge on voltaic key because of its conflict with our chalice on 1 all the time. On that note, I don't feel like key does anything relevant to what I want it to do in this match up, except untapped monolith once. If that's all we want it for, I think thran Dynamo is strictly better here.

[Jorruk]

I've never been huge on voltaic key because of its conflict with our chalice on 1 all the time. On that note, I don't feel like key does anything relevant to what I want it to do in this match up, except untapped monolith once. If that's all we want it for, I think thran Dynamo is strictly better here.

Hi,

I think voltaic key doesn't really fit our shell. I could see it in big eldrazi post where you have grim and basalt monolith with actually plenty of higher CCM cards.
According to what has been discussed on the FB group the main idea is to have
- against B2B : ratchet bomb and spine
- control plan : thorn of amethyst, lodestone, chalice, 3Ball for preventing them to cast their Jace and cantrips
- terminus : warping wail

Additionnaly, if you are on the lightning greaves plan I guess having defense grid can also be useful. Added to thorn and lodestone it seems quite difficult for them to have a response during your turn.

[Silverflame]

Hi,

I think voltaic key doesn't really fit our shell. I could see it in big eldrazi post where you have grim and basalt monolith with actually plenty of higher CCM cards.
According to what have been discussed on the FB group the main idea is to have
- against B2B : ratchet bomb and spine
- control plan : thorn of amethyst, lodestone, chalice, 3Ball for preventing them to cast their Jace and cantrips
- terminus : warping wail

Additionnaly, if you are on the lightning greaves plan I guess having defense grid can also be useful. Added to thorn and lodestone it seems quite difficult for them to have a response during your turn.

I've been having reasonable success in these matches (miracles and Helm combo UW, haven't seen Blade variants for a while) with basically stock list:
MD 1 spine, 2 dynamos, 1 greaves, 2 ugin, 2 thorn, 2 3ball, 1 ballista. SB: 1 ugin, 2 karn liberated, 1 ratchet bomb, 1 ballista. Sideout wurmcoil, 3ball (because they will try to lock us with B2B).
Up to the point that a miracles player I faced in a tournament just conceded when he was paired with me in the next tournament. He said it was pointless to play against my deck as he had no way to win.

[Jorruk]

I've been having reasonable success in these matches (miracles and Helm combo UW, haven't seen Blade variants for a while) with basically stock list:
MD 1 spine, 2 dynamos, 1 greaves, 2 ugin, 2 thorn, 2 3ball, 1 ballista. SB: 1 ugin, 2 karn liberated, 1 ratchet bomb, 1 ballista. Sideout wurmcoil, 3ball (because they will try to lock us with B2B).
Up to the point that a miracles player I faced in a tournament just conceded when he was paired with me in the next tournament. He said it was pointless to play against my deck as he had no way to win.

Yeah I see your point. I think the main difference is the fact that you have access to dynamos.
Can you share your list ?

Congrats on the insta scoop from your opponent ! haha

[Silverflame]

I started with Malife's deck from page 230 and adapted a little bit. I'm trying to min-max the list to my playstyle and local meta, so I make small changes every week. I cashed out 3 of the 4 times I played this month on my LGS (today I got cocky and didn't mulligan a questionable hand against infect and eldrazi just rolled me).
The list is very tight, but I believe I should try to fit in one more monolith. Most of the matches I lost with this build was either due to tomb's burn or not enough mana to cast something gamechanging.

61 cards,

20 Spells
2 Sorcery Spyglass
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Coercive Portal
2 Thran Dynamo
2 Staff of Domination
2 Ugin
2 Thorn
2 Trinisphere
2 Grim Monolith

17 creatures
1 Walking Ballista
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Blighsteel Colossus
2 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem

24 Lands
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Buried Ruin
1 Thespian Stage
3 City of Traitors
3 Vesuva
3 Glimmerpost
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost

SB
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ulamog
2 Walking Ballista
1 Ugin
2 Karn Liberated
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Torpor Orb
2 Ensnaring Bridge

[Jorruk]

I started with Malife's deck from page 230 and adapted a little bit. I'm trying to min-max the list to my playstyle and local meta, so I make small changes every week. I cashed out 3 of the 4 times I played this month on my LGS (today I got cocky and didn't mulligan a questionable hand against infect and eldrazi just rolled me).
The list is very tight, but I believe I should try to fit in one more monolith. Most of the matches I lost with this build was either due to tomb's burn or not enough mana to cast something gamechanging.

61 cards,

20 Spells
2 Sorcery Spyglass
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Coercive Portal
2 Thran Dynamo
2 Staff of Domination
2 Ugin
2 Thorn
2 Trinisphere
2 Grim Monolith

17 creatures
1 Walking Ballista
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Blighsteel Colossus
2 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem

24 Lands
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Buried Ruin
1 Thespian Stage
3 City of Traitors
3 Vesuva
3 Glimmerpost
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost

SB
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ulamog
2 Walking Ballista
1 Ugin
2 Karn Liberated
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Torpor Orb
2 Ensnaring Bridge

I see I see,
I tried a similar list, but I disliked the fact to not have 4 kuldotha and 2 lightning greaves. Otherwise it felt nice to have 2 staffs.
I should try yours.
Do you feel the lack of cavern of souls ?

[Silverflame]

I see I see,
I tried a similar list, but I disliked the fact to not have 4 kuldotha and 2 lightning greaves. Otherwise it felt nice to have 2 staffs.
I should try yours.
Do you feel the lack of cavern of souls ?

Not really, there's been an increase on grindy decks and a slight decline of blue control decks on my local meta, specially Blade variants that have counters and pressure at the same time. Grixis is a thing, but the cards we need to stick are Ugin and Karn Liberated so Wastelands ends up being relevant in more matches. If your meta is different, and in mol, it could be more relevant.
Props to Malfie, I learned a lot by reading his insights :)
I haven't tested Kid Karn properly, but it seems to be popping up more frequently. I'm thinkin on replacing the coercive portal for it, and maybe 1 more slot on the SB.

[forestfold]

Hi,

I think voltaic key doesn't really fit our shell. I could see it in big eldrazi post where you have grim and basalt monolith with actually plenty of higher CCM cards.
According to what has been discussed on the FB group the main idea is to have
- against B2B : ratchet bomb and spine
- control plan : thorn of amethyst, lodestone, chalice, 3Ball for preventing them to cast their Jace and cantrips
- terminus : warping wail

Additionnaly, if you are on the lightning greaves plan I guess having defense grid can also be useful. Added to thorn and lodestone it seems quite difficult for them to have a response during your turn.

I've had a little success with super-voltaic key vs. B2B, i.e. Unwinding Clock. It is one of my weird SB cards that occasionally wanders in. I have not had much time to play lately, as I had a son last year and i've been working nights. I just played in SCG Worcester legacy classic to 3-3 drop, but I am so damn rusty I didn't expect to even do that well. I will be going to GP Niagara and there is a 50/50 shot at me playing MUD.

To just broadly address the last year of new cards and play, I can't imagine not playing 1 ballista. It is not forgemaster-able is basically the only downside. It is effectively modal removal, it can be uncounterable if you run caverns, and with active cloudposts it is just insane. Goblins is back and worse for us, because Trashmaster is a beating. A friend of mine t4'd the previous SCG Worcester with it, and the deck has wheels again.

I also really like 1 Staff of Nin, has been a staple for me for a long time. Elves/DnT have to answer it or suffer, and many answers to it still let you draw a card every turn which is sweet. I like 2x Staff of Domination a lot of people are running, that seems great IMO. Haven't had a chance to try little Karn but he seems great, I cut big Karn a while back and haven't really missed him, i ran him @ Worcester because I accidentally left Emperion in my Scapeshift modern deck and was too cheap to buy another. He was very unimpressive.
Stage also seems great, as the 4th Vesuva would just be abysmal (tried it in the past, even with three I still draw double vesuva openers once every hundred hands or so and want to tear one up).
Spyglass was also insane, i had 2 in the board but main deck seems great, I just hadn't checked the forum in forever and it never occurred to me. I haven't liked thorn except vs. Reanimator for a while, so another hateful cmc2 card is awesome. Needle was always mediocre because chalice is just so damn good. Actually lost a game to ANT in Worcester because I chalice'd on 1 and he went land, petal, LED, LED, Burning Wish discarding a cantrip, Empty for 10 tokens and wrecked me, but i got him G2 & 3.

Keep on dropping huge metal bombs people. If i play MUD in Niagara (and work doesn't bone me out of going) I will definitely actually prepare for the tournament, and write another detailed report. Cheers!

P.S. I hate foils, but I still KMC hard sleeve + DragonShield Matte my deck because it's ~$2k+ with none of them, and this adds a ridiculous amount of strength to them. Also glides nicely when shuffling, even if it does make my hands hurt to fade such a large pile.

[Jorruk]

I've had a little success with super-voltaic key vs. B2B, i.e. Unwinding Clock. It is one of my weird SB cards that occasionally wanders in. I have not had much time to play lately, as I had a son last year and i've been working nights. I just played in SCG Worcester legacy classic to 3-3 drop, but I am so damn rusty I didn't expect to even do that well. I will be going to GP Niagara and there is a 50/50 shot at me playing MUD.

To just broadly address the last year of new cards and play, I can't imagine not playing 1 ballista. It is not forgemaster-able is basically the only downside. It is effectively modal removal, it can be uncounterable if you run caverns, and with active cloudposts it is just insane. Goblins is back and worse for us, because Trashmaster is a beating. A friend of mine t4'd the previous SCG Worcester with it, and the deck has wheels again.

I also really like 1 Staff of Nin, has been a staple for me for a long time. Elves/DnT have to answer it or suffer, and many answers to it still let you draw a card every turn which is sweet. I like 2x Staff of Domination a lot of people are running, that seems great IMO. Haven't had a chance to try little Karn but he seems great, I cut big Karn a while back and haven't really missed him, i ran him @ Worcester because I accidentally left Emperion in my Scapeshift modern deck and was too cheap to buy another. He was very unimpressive.
Stage also seems great, as the 4th Vesuva would just be abysmal (tried it in the past, even with three I still draw double vesuva openers once every hundred hands or so and want to tear one up).
Spyglass was also insane, i had 2 in the board but main deck seems great, I just hadn't checked the forum in forever and it never occurred to me. I haven't liked thorn except vs. Reanimator for a while, so another hateful cmc2 card is awesome. Needle was always mediocre because chalice is just so damn good. Actually lost a game to ANT in Worcester because I chalice'd on 1 and he went land, petal, LED, LED, Burning Wish discarding a cantrip, Empty for 10 tokens and wrecked me, but i got him G2 & 3.

Keep on dropping huge metal bombs people. If i play MUD in Niagara (and work doesn't bone me out of going) I will definitely actually prepare for the tournament, and write another detailed report. Cheers!

P.S. I hate foils, but I still KMC hard sleeve + DragonShield Matte my deck because it's ~$2k+ with none of them, and this adds a ridiculous amount of strength to them. Also glides nicely when shuffling, even if it does make my hands hurt to fade such a large pile.

Thank you for your report :)
I will try to find some time to test the other build. I will still stay with 3 kuldotha and maybe no thorn MD.

funny note : Yesterday I was playing with a friend and got my first T2 kill from all time with MUD (and God knows I have played the deck a lot).
It was after side, on the play against turbo depth.
I went T1 ancient tomb lightning greaves.
He plays a land, map of expedition.
T2: play a land, play metalworker, equip metalworker. Activate, reveals 4 artifacts, play metalworker and kuldotha. Sac Kuldotha, metalworker x2, take a blightsteel, equip => win :D

[BlackHawkX9]

Thank you for your report :)
I will try to find some time to test the other build. I will still stay with 3 kuldotha and maybe no thorn MD.

funny note : Yesterday I was playing with a friend and got my first T2 kill from all time with MUD (and God knows I have played the deck a lot).
It was after side, on the play against turbo depth.
I went T1 ancient tomb lightning greaves.
He plays a land, map of expedition.
T2: play a land, play metalworker, equip metalworker. Activate, reveals 4 artifacts, play metalworker and kuldotha. Sac Kuldotha, metalworker x2, take a blightsteel, equip => win :D

T1 lightning greaves, or t1 monolith into metalworker, are our scariest plays. The have the possibility of the most explosive plays.

[Jorruk]

T1 lightning greaves, or t1 monolith into metalworker, are our scariest plays. The have the possibility of the most explosive plays.

Exactly, even though I usually dislike playing monolith into metalworker. Most decks have response (FoW - removal) and you end up with a tapped monolith for "nothing".

[BlackHawkX9]

Exactly, even though I usually dislike playing monolith into metalworker. Most decks have response (FoW - removal) and you end up with a tapped monolith for "nothing".

I agree with you 100%. Monolith into metalworker isn't the most ideal play. I almost only ever make that play if I'm on the draw and their turn 1 tells me that they are turbo depths, elves, mono red prison, or a few other fringe decks that are either light on removal or a deck you have to drag race with. It's a risky play but sometimes it pays off on a gamble. I've t1 on the play jammed a monolith into a metalworker against a regular dnt guy at my shop, challenging him to have swords. He didn't have it, so I slammed a t2 ugin. It's super rare, super risky, but does happen on occasion.

[Jorruk]

I agree with you 100%. Monolith into metalworker isn't the most ideal play. I almost only ever make that play if I'm on the draw and their turn 1 tells me that they are turbo depths, elves, mono red prison, or a few other fringe decks that are either light on removal or a deck you have to drag race with. It's a risky play but sometimes it pays off on a gamble. I've t1 on the play jammed a monolith into a metalworker against a regular dnt guy at my shop, challenging him to have swords. He didn't have it, so I slammed a t2 ugin. It's super rare, super risky, but does happen on occasion.

Yup, I think it's the most "high risk, high reward" the deck can go.
I also did that to a merfolk opponent who had mulliganed to 6. If it got FoW'ed he had to start the game with 4 cards, and I was fine with that :p

[forestfold]

Yup, I think it's the most "high risk, high reward" the deck can go.
I also did that to a merfolk opponent who had mulliganed to 6. If it got FoW'ed he had to start the game with 4 cards, and I was fine with that :p

Agreed, it's also fine if you're playing a 30/70% matchup like Reanimator or tight combo decks with very little versatility. We need to have solid starts to beat them. I just assume Metal Worker is going to die every time I play him, so that way i am pleasantly surprised about 1/3 of the time.

[darkgh0st]

MUD Superfriends
by darkghost


Lands (24)
Artifacts (23)
Creatures (9)
Planeswalkers (4)
Sideboard



4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Swamp
2 Inventor's Fair
3 Wasteland
1 Buried Ruin




4 Grim Monolith
2 Voltaic Key
2 Thran Dynamo
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Staff of Domination
1 Planar Bridge




4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Metalworker
1 Walking Ballista




2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon




4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Null Brooch
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Wurmcoil Engine



Played at the Side Events of GP Toronto:

E1:
R1: vs Yuriko and Tell (2-1) 1-0
R2: vs UW Miracles (2-0, 4-1) 2-0
R3: vs DnT (2-1, 6-2) 3-0

E2:
R1: vs Moon Stompy (2-1, 8-3) 4-0
R2: vs Applejacks (0-2, 8-5) 4-1
R3: vs UW Stoneblade (2-0, 10-5) 5-1

E3:
R1: vs UB Shadow (2-0, 12-5) 6-1
R2: vs Merfolks (2-1, 14-6) 7-1
drop for prize

E4:
R1: vs Esper Control (2-1, 16-7) 8-1
R2: vs DnT, rematch (2-0, 18-7) 9-1
drop for prize

TT1: vs Infect (1-2, 19-9) 9-2
TT2: vs Tin Fins/Reanimate Hybrid (2-1, 21-10) 10-2

E5:
R1: vs Infect (2-0, 23-10) 11-2
R2: vs Jeskai Helm (2-0, 25-10) 12-2
drop for prize

[BlackHawkX9]

MUD Superfriends
by darkghost


Lands (24)
Artifacts (23)
Creatures (9)
Planeswalkers (4)
Sideboard



4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Swamp
2 Inventor's Fair
3 Wasteland
1 Buried Ruin




4 Grim Monolith
2 Voltaic Key
2 Thran Dynamo
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Staff of Domination
1 Planar Bridge
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon




4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Metalworker
1 Walking Ballista




2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon




4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Null Brooch
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Wurmcoil Engine



Played at the Side Events of GP Toronto:

E1:
R1: vs Yuriko and Tell (2-1) 1-0
R2: vs UW Miracles (2-0, 4-1) 2-0
R3: vs DnT (2-1, 6-2) 3-0

E2:
R1: vs Moon Stompy (2-1, 8-3) 4-0
R2: vs Applejacks (0-2, 8-5) 4-1
R3: vs UW Stoneblade (2-0, 10-5) 5-1

E3:
R1: vs UB Shadow (2-0, 12-5) 6-1
R2: vs Merfolks (2-1, 14-6) 7-1
drop for prize

E4:
R1: vs Esper Control (2-1, 16-7) 8-1
R2: vs DnT, rematch (2-0, 18-7) 9-1
drop for prize

TT1: vs Infect (1-2, 19-9) 9-2
TT2: vs Tin Fins/Reanimate Hybrid (2-1, 21-10) 10-2

E5:
R1: vs Infect (2-0, 23-10) 11-2
R2: vs Jeskai Helm (2-0, 25-10) 12-2
drop for prize

I like the list. It's kind of on that mono brown superfriends that I was theory crafting. How do you like the planar bridge? How do you feel your numbers are of non- artifact colorless stuff in the same deck with metalworker affects it's Mana output for you?

Also, how bad is the pay out in Chucky cheese prize wall tickets for those events for those 3 round dumpster fires? We have magic fest Cleveland this weekend thats 30 minutes from me that I wanted to run mud in those side events, and am leaning towards not going because I don't feel it's worth the money for 3 round nothing's with those prize wall tickets as your reward. Thoughts?

[darkgh0st]

I like the list. It's kind of on that mono brown superfriends that I was theory crafting.
Your suggestion of having Crucible of Worlds and Karn Liberated has helped refined the deck better.

How do you like the planar bridge?
It is the bridge that connects the big mana into the finishers or SB cards, fetchable through Forgemaster or Inventors' Fair. It's pretty much game when I get to activate it. I also like how it can sneak in solutions without costing you 3 artifacts.

How do you feel your numbers are of non-artifact colorless stuff in the same deck with metalworker affects it's Mana output for you?
The 3 extra artifact lands mitigate the colorless count. 35 artifacts seems plenty and if you have to put in 4 colorless cards, you're probably siding out some Karns.

Also, how bad is the pay out in Chucky cheese prize wall tickets for those events for those 3 round dumpster fires? We have magic fest Cleveland this weekend thats 30 minutes from me that I wanted to run mud in those side events, and am leaning towards not going because I don't feel it's worth the money for 3 round nothing's with those prize wall tickets as your reward. Thoughts?
Lol. I think you have it right on. To make it worth it, you'll have to get the constructed fanatic package, make it for the double-ups (1 a day), and do well in those. The best value are still selling he boxes you win. There was an LED in the prize wall that was worth 900 tickets. 3-0 gets you 300 tix (600 on double-up), 2-0 split gets you 200 tix, 2-1 gets you 100 tix.

[Silverflame]

MUD Superfriends
by darkghost


Lands (24)
Artifacts (23)
Creatures (9)
Planeswalkers (4)
Sideboard



4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Swamp
2 Inventor's Fair
3 Wasteland
1 Buried Ruin




4 Grim Monolith
2 Voltaic Key
2 Thran Dynamo
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Staff of Domination
1 Planar Bridge




4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Metalworker
1 Walking Ballista




2 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon




4 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Null Brooch
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Wurmcoil Engine



Played at the Side Events of GP Toronto:

E1:
R1: vs Yuriko and Tell (2-1) 1-0
R2: vs UW Miracles (2-0, 4-1) 2-0
R3: vs DnT (2-1, 6-2) 3-0

E2:
R1: vs Moon Stompy (2-1, 8-3) 4-0
R2: vs Applejacks (0-2, 8-5) 4-1
R3: vs UW Stoneblade (2-0, 10-5) 5-1

E3:
R1: vs UB Shadow (2-0, 12-5) 6-1
R2: vs Merfolks (2-1, 14-6) 7-1
drop for prize

E4:
R1: vs Esper Control (2-1, 16-7) 8-1
R2: vs DnT, rematch (2-0, 18-7) 9-1
drop for prize

TT1: vs Infect (1-2, 19-9) 9-2
TT2: vs Tin Fins/Reanimate Hybrid (2-1, 21-10) 10-2

E5:
R1: vs Infect (2-0, 23-10) 11-2
R2: vs Jeskai Helm (2-0, 25-10) 12-2
drop for prize

Congrats on the results! I did terrible at a 6 round event so I changed a lot of my list because my meta is full of goblins, miracles is casting MD b2b and maverick is a thing again. I loaded on draws to make mw better and 4 voltaic keys SB and went 3-1.
The interesting tech is Citanul Flute, you get a ballista for free when you drop it, next turn you get what you need. I'm running 3 ballista currently. The shuffle effect can also be used to try and get out of Jacelock.
Gonna test it more before posting, but I had a degenerate G2 against maverick. He went wasteland, chome mox, chome mox, go. I went tomb, monolith, voltaic key, voltaic key, dynamo, mw. He wasted and decayed mw, and T2 I still had 7 mana, 8 with my land drop :)

[PuppyWuppy]

Is there anyone that streams MUD on a regular bases? I'm not finding much on youtube and such.

[BlackHawkX9]

Is there anyone that streams MUD on a regular bases? I'm not finding much on youtube and such.

I would like to know this also.

[Silverflame]

It's not regular, but Mengucci posted a go in mol. He does some mistakes, but still gets 4-1:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf8YTt68wZM&feature=youtu.be

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

The Mengucci video that was just posted was really great but 3 Karn Scion of Urza seems overkill. With taking out Cloudposts he had a chance to run Goblin Welder with Great Furnace in there. He also could have cut a Voltaic Key as 2 seems to me to be too many. With that he could have played another Trinisphere. Walking Ballista is really powerful as removal but it's not much of a threat and the deck can win by slamming down a Wurmcoil or a Lodestone or a Forgemaster so I don't think it's needed. This is what I would run inspired by his list, not tested but I'm excited to try it out

4 Great Furnace
4 Cavern Of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice Of The Void
3 Trinisphere
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff Of Domination
4 Goblin Welder
1 Karn Scion of Urza
1 Sundering Titan
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Voltaic Key
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds

[Silverflame]

The Mengucci video that was just posted was really great but 3 Karn Scion of Urza seems overkill. With taking out Cloudposts he had a chance to run Goblin Welder with Great Furnace in there. He also could have cut a Voltaic Key as 2 seems to me to be too many. With that he could have played another Trinisphere. Walking Ballista is really powerful as removal but it's not much of a threat and the deck can win by slamming down a Wurmcoil or a Lodestone or a Forgemaster so I don't think it's needed. This is what I would run inspired by his list, not tested but I'm excited to try it out

4 Great Furnace
4 Cavern Of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice Of The Void
3 Trinisphere
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff Of Domination
4 Goblin Welder
1 Karn Scion of Urza
1 Sundering Titan
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Voltaic Key
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds

That list seems reasonable, I agree it would be better than Mengucci's.

I'm running a weird list myself. Apart from the endbringer, that could be 2nd Karn/kuldotha, 4th Coil or 3rd Ballista, it seems to be running well, apart from missing artifact count sometimes, warranting me 2 top8 in a row in the weekly LGS tournament:



MUD Citanul
By Silverflame


Lands 23
Creatures 19
Spells 19
Sideboard 15


4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Vesuva
3 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
Buried Ruin
Inventors' Fair
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
2 Walking Ballista
3 Wurmcoil Engine
Kuldotha Forgemaster
Thought-Knot Seer
Endbringer
Steel Hellkite
Sundering Titan
Platinum Emperion
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Staff of Domination
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
Thran Dynamo
Trinisphere
Citanul Flute
Lightning Greaves
Karn, Scion of Urza
Sphere of Resistance
Warping Wail
All is Dust
Karn Liberated
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Voltaic Key



This was my run yesterday, as best as I remember:

Round 1 - UW Delver
I'm paired with my former teammate. He played the Pro tour last month, being 1 game away from prize. Due to traffic, he is late but we managed to start the game with 30 minutes in the clock. He plays several decks, but lately he was running Elves, so that's what I think he is on.
G1- I win the die roll and keep a tomb + chalice + metalworker +caverns hand. I see I'm wrong as he plays stoneforge mystic on the second turn, fetching for a jitte. On T3 I cast TKS and take his jitte. He casts 2 snapcasters to block my TKS (I saw his hand with TKS, so I'm well aware not to attack even beffore he casts the second), he gets a tnn and stall for a few turns, until he gets a batterskull and equips it. I'm bashed to 1 life, but I managed to get a kuldotha online, so when he goes for the kill, I fetch for an emperion. With post base, I'm soon with over 20 mana, so when I draw a staff, I'm able to draw 5 cards a turn and go infinite.

SB OUT: 3 wurmcoils, TKS, Endbringer, Trinisphere, 1 chalice
SB IN: 1 Ratchet Bomb, All is Dust, 4 keys, Thorn
I try a T1 monolith that gets dazed. He ponders and go for the 3rd land, casting a tnn. I have a Karn, Scion so I draw for a few turns trying to find an answer. I don't have 3 artifacts in play to crack the inventor's fair, only monolith and a dynamo. I fail to find the find the answer and die to tnn equipped with jitte.

IN: 1 chalice
OUT: Thorn
I keep a slow hand with 2 glimmers, cavern, 2 metalworker, 2 keys, ballista.
I ramp to metalworker and attempt to cast the lodestone that gets forced. He plays delver and jitte, so I play caverns on construct, trade ballista . I have metalworker and 2 keys in play, 1 key in hand, so I get a total of 9 mana with my lands. I attack him a few times with metalworker as I have nothing to do with the mana. I topdeck a sundering titan that gets plowshared, but destroys his manabase he is slowed. He plays another delver, but I find an ugin to deal with it. Next turn I bolt him, taking Ugin to 11. He finds council and feels visibly relieved. I tpdeck another Ugin that ups and ults, not finding much, but enough to close the game.

1-0
Rd2 - UW Miracles Legends
This is a experienced player, we both know what the other is on. He tells me we are paired and we sit down for a smoke before playing.
I lose the die roll.
G1- I keep tomb + monolith+ chalice+ mw+ wurmcoil.
I cast chalice, that gets fow'ed. He ponders and I play metalworker, bringing wurmcoil next turn. He plowshares the wurmcoil, I get Citanul online, he councils it, so I get a ballista. I draw a staff and go infinite.

SB IN: 2 Ratchet Bomb, 1 Ulamog, 1 Karn Liberated, 4 Voltaic Key, 1 All is Dust
SB OUT: 3 wurmcoil, 1 Trinisphere, 1 staff, 2 spyglass (not sure if I should, he uses karakas as an engine)

He mulligans (he told me later he was looking for back to basics). I Mulligan to find a key + rock. He goes tundra go, I do nothing go. He plays plains and ponder. I vesuva his plains and go for key. a second vesuva copies his plains and go for monolith + chalice for 1. I start drawing and play cavern on construct and golem, so he can't do nothing to protect his manabase against Sundering Titan. I hit him once, then he finds an answer to the titan. a 10/10 ballista follows, closing the game.

2-0
Rd3 - Burn
I'm playing against the store's judge. He tells me he was going to play with MUD in that tournament, but he was short on lodestones. I tell him I'd lend him and explains a bit on how my list is different from Mengucci's before we start playing. I saw him playing earlier so I know he is on burn.
I win the die roll. Go for tomb + chalice. T2 I cast TKS taking Light up the Stage, and T$ wurmcoil. He concedes.

SIDE IN: 2 ratchet bombs, 1 sphere of Resistance, 1 Thron, 4 Keys
SIDE OUT: 2 Ugin, 1 Citanul Flute, 1 Sundering Titan, 1 Endbringer, 2 Staff, 1 Karn, Scion

I keep a slow hand to ramp to wurmcoil. het casts 2 monastery swiftspears and starts bashing. I play trinisphere that holds him 1 turn, but he gets to the 3rd land, killing metalworker before it can untap. When I'm at 8 life, he casts PoP.
SIDE IN: 1 Staff
SIDE OUT: Endbringer
I mulligan to 6 to a ridiculously good hand. I play tomb + chalice on 1. He land, passes. I play sphere of resistance, he pass. Since he didn't get the 2nd land, I play metalworker first. He goes 2nd land, passes. I play lodestone. He gets to the 3rd land eventually, but taking 6 damage a turn, he doesn't get to play a single spell.

3-0
I'm first on the standings so I ID the 4th round.

[Captain Hammer]

Ive been loving Traxos in MUD. Its a fantastic secondary plan when you get mana screwed (tomb wastelanded, metalworker StPed etc).

Often wins games by itself even when you dont have the mana to play your higher casting cost dudes.

I play 3 copies and am never unhappy to see it in my opening hand.

[Jorruk]

That list seems reasonable, I agree it would be better than Mengucci's.

I'm running a weird list myself. Apart from the endbringer, that could be 2nd Karn/kuldotha, 4th Coil or 3rd Ballista, it seems to be running well, apart from missing artifact count sometimes, warranting me 2 top8 in a row in the weekly LGS tournament:



MUD Citanul
By Silverflame


Lands 23
Creatures 19
Spells 19
Sideboard 15


4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Vesuva
3 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
Buried Ruin
Inventors' Fair
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
2 Walking Ballista
3 Wurmcoil Engine
Kuldotha Forgemaster
Thought-Knot Seer
Endbringer
Steel Hellkite
Sundering Titan
Platinum Emperion
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Staff of Domination
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
Thran Dynamo
Trinisphere
Citanul Flute
Lightning Greaves
Karn, Scion of Urza
Sphere of Resistance
Warping Wail
All is Dust
Karn Liberated
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Voltaic Key



This was my run yesterday, as best as I remember:

Round 1 - UW Delver
I'm paired with my former teammate. He played the Pro tour last month, being 1 game away from prize. Due to traffic, he is late but we managed to start the game with 30 minutes in the clock. He plays several decks, but lately he was running Elves, so that's what I think he is on.
G1- I win the die roll and keep a tomb + chalice + metalworker +caverns hand. I see I'm wrong as he plays stoneforge mystic on the second turn, fetching for a jitte. On T3 I cast TKS and take his jitte. He casts 2 snapcasters to block my TKS (I saw his hand with TKS, so I'm well aware not to attack even beffore he casts the second), he gets a tnn and stall for a few turns, until he gets a batterskull and equips it. I'm bashed to 1 life, but I managed to get a kuldotha online, so when he goes for the kill, I fetch for an emperion. With post base, I'm soon with over 20 mana, so when I draw a staff, I'm able to draw 5 cards a turn and go infinite.

SB OUT: 3 wurmcoils, TKS, Endbringer, Trinisphere, 1 chalice
SB IN: 1 Ratchet Bomb, All is Dust, 4 keys, Thorn
I try a T1 monolith that gets dazed. He ponders and go for the 3rd land, casting a tnn. I have a Karn, Scion so I draw for a few turns trying to find an answer. I don't have 3 artifacts in play to crack the inventor's fair, only monolith and a dynamo. I fail to find the find the answer and die to tnn equipped with jitte.

IN: 1 chalice
OUT: Thorn
I keep a slow hand with 2 glimmers, cavern, 2 metalworker, 2 keys, ballista.
I ramp to metalworker and attempt to cast the lodestone that gets forced. He plays delver and jitte, so I play caverns on construct, trade ballista . I have metalworker and 2 keys in play, 1 key in hand, so I get a total of 9 mana with my lands. I attack him a few times with metalworker as I have nothing to do with the mana. I topdeck a sundering titan that gets plowshared, but destroys his manabase he is slowed. He plays another delver, but I find an ugin to deal with it. Next turn I bolt him, taking Ugin to 11. He finds council and feels visibly relieved. I tpdeck another Ugin that ups and ults, not finding much, but enough to close the game.

1-0
Rd2 - UW Miracles Legends
This is a experienced player, we both know what the other is on. He tells me we are paired and we sit down for a smoke before playing.
I lose the die roll.
G1- I keep tomb + monolith+ chalice+ mw+ wurmcoil.
I cast chalice, that gets fow'ed. He ponders and I play metalworker, bringing wurmcoil next turn. He plowshares the wurmcoil, I get Citanul online, he councils it, so I get a ballista. I draw a staff and go infinite.

SB IN: 2 Ratchet Bomb, 1 Ulamog, 1 Karn Liberated, 4 Voltaic Key, 1 All is Dust
SB OUT: 3 wurmcoil, 1 Trinisphere, 1 staff, 2 spyglass (not sure if I should, he uses karakas as an engine)

He mulligans (he told me later he was looking for back to basics). I Mulligan to find a key + rock. He goes tundra go, I do nothing go. He plays plains and ponder. I vesuva his plains and go for key. a second vesuva copies his plains and go for monolith + chalice for 1. I start drawing and play cavern on construct and golem, so he can't do nothing to protect his manabase against Sundering Titan. I hit him once, then he finds an answer to the titan. a 10/10 ballista follows, closing the game.

2-0
Rd3 - Burn
I'm playing against the store's judge. He tells me he was going to play with MUD in that tournament, but he was short on lodestones. I tell him I'd lend him and explains a bit on how my list is different from Mengucci's before we start playing. I saw him playing earlier so I know he is on burn.
I win the die roll. Go for tomb + chalice. T2 I cast TKS taking Light up the Stage, and T$ wurmcoil. He concedes.

SIDE IN: 2 ratchet bombs, 1 sphere of Resistance, 1 Thron, 4 Keys
SIDE OUT: 2 Ugin, 1 Citanul Flute, 1 Sundering Titan, 1 Endbringer, 2 Staff, 1 Karn, Scion

I keep a slow hand to ramp to wurmcoil. het casts 2 monastery swiftspears and starts bashing. I play trinisphere that holds him 1 turn, but he gets to the 3rd land, killing metalworker before it can untap. When I'm at 8 life, he casts PoP.
SIDE IN: 1 Staff
SIDE OUT: Endbringer
I mulligan to 6 to a ridiculously good hand. I play tomb + chalice on 1. He land, passes. I play sphere of resistance, he pass. Since he didn't get the 2nd land, I play metalworker first. He goes 2nd land, passes. I play lodestone. He gets to the 3rd land eventually, but taking 6 damage a turn, he doesn't get to play a single spell.

3-0
I'm first on the standings so I ID the 4th round.

Nice report !

I'm still a bit dubious about keys and chalice. It is a nonbo for me.
Your list is a bit spicy but I should give it a try. How do you feel the 1-of forgemaster ? If it is only a 1 of, don't you prefer it to be another thing ?




@ Captain,
I have never played with Traxos for now, but I am a bit afraid of the drawbacks: sometimes you can just get flooded and he won't do anything. If I had to choose between Traxos and wurmcoil I would still pref the wurm, in most cases lodestone golem are also very good.
What did you cut for Traxos ? I may test it online :)
I would cut 1 wurmcoil, 1 lodestone and maybe 1 ballista.

[Silverflame]

Nice report !

I'm still a bit dubious about keys and chalice. It is a nonbo for me.
Your list is a bit spicy but I should give it a try. How do you feel the 1-of forgemaster ? If it is only a 1 of, don't you prefer it to be another thing ?



I kept 1 kuldotha to fetch for emperion mostly since I cut blightsteel. The list is aimed to maximize metalworker since many decks are running mana denial. I've been comboing more consistenly now or at least bringing huge ballistas. A trick you get to pull is stalling until you have metalworker and staff, then you EOT fetch for Citanul, grab a ballista, draw and grab another thing to go infinite.
It sure is, but keys are another way to protect your manabase and can also be used to fill your hand with flute (in theory, I didn't manage to do that yet) and tick ratchet bomb faster. I side them in when I think the opponent will try to manalock me or when I need to ramp faster, so it's a stance shift. I'm not sure if we need 4.

I still need to find a winning route to defeat goblins, the match has become so horrendous with MD trashmaster and cratermaker.
I forgot to mention on the report, but from the 8 games played I mulliganed 6 times, thrice to 5. From those hands, there were 2 I'd keep if the new mulligan rule was valid.

[Jorruk]

I kept 1 kuldotha to fetch for emperion mostly since I cut blightsteel. The list is aimed to maximize metalworker since many decks are running mana denial. I've been comboing more consistenly now or at least bringing huge ballistas. A trick you get to pull is stalling until you have metalworker and staff, then you EOT fetch for Citanul, grab a ballista, draw and grab another thing to go infinite.
It sure is, but keys are another way to protect your manabase and can also be used to fill your hand with flute (in theory, I didn't manage to do that yet) and tick ratchet bomb faster. I side them in when I think the opponent will try to manalock me or when I need to ramp faster, so it's a stance shift. I'm not sure if we need 4.

I still need to find a winning route to defeat goblins, the match has become so horrendous with MD trashmaster and cratermaker.
I forgot to mention on the report, but from the 8 games played I mulliganed 6 times, thrice to 5. From those hands, there were 2 I'd keep if the new mulligan rule was valid.

Ok, thank you for the insight.
I personnally have abandonned the goblin MU. It's almost unwinnable without an Ugin (and still ...)
Totally agree with the London mulligan being a very nice thing for us. I also tried at the last FNM and it's wonderfull.

My meta is quite control'ish, it's quite rare to stick a metalworker for a few turns so I'm not sure your plan will go well for me. It is however very interesting and for sure can help against B2B.

I will go to a ~80 man event at the end of the month. Will tell you how it went

[Captain Hammer]

Nice report !

I'm still a bit dubious about keys and chalice. It is a nonbo for me.
Your list is a bit spicy but I should give it a try. How do you feel the 1-of forgemaster ? If it is only a 1 of, don't you prefer it to be another thing ?




@ Captain,
I have never played with Traxos for now, but I am a bit afraid of the drawbacks: sometimes you can just get flooded and he won't do anything. If I had to choose between Traxos and wurmcoil I would still pref the wurm, in most cases lodestone golem are also very good.
What did you cut for Traxos ? I may test it online :)
I would cut 1 wurmcoil, 1 lodestone and maybe 1 ballista.

Cut two of your flex slots (a Voltaic Key/Citanul Flute/Karn Liberated/a Endbringer/a Ballista/a Ugin/the second Staff if you play 2) to make room for 2 Traxos. It doesnt really have any drawbacks. Its an alternate play for when you dont have Metalworker or when the Metalworker gets killed. It comes down turn 1/2 while dodging Daze and starts beating for 7 the turn after forcing your opponent to deal with it asap and buying you time to ramp into your big guys. Unchecked, it wins the game with 2 attacks if you have any other creature that swings even once. At worst it gets countered/StPed instead of one of your higher cc dudes and gains you life in the process.

Traxos works best in builds that are almost entirely artifacts (the same builds that Metalworker excels in).

[Silverflame]

Cut two of your flex slots (a Voltaic Key/Citanul Flute/Karn Liberated/a Endbringer/a Ballista/a Ugin/the second Staff if you play 2) to make room for 2 Traxos. It doesnt really have any drawbacks. Its an alternate play for when you dont have Metalworker or when the Metalworker gets killed. It comes down turn 1/2 while dodging Daze and starts beating for 7 the turn after forcing your opponent to deal with it asap and buying you time to ramp into your big guys. Unchecked, it wins the game with 2 attacks if you have any other creature that swings even once. At worst it gets countered/StPed instead of one of your higher cc dudes and gains you life in the process.

Traxos works best in builds that are almost entirely artifacts (the same builds that Metalworker excels in).

I think I'll test traxos in the Endbringer slot. I tried Meteor Golem as another way to remove main b2b and other annoying things, but it seems underwhelming at best.

Is Traxos working well without a batterskull? I'm afraid it may just be tapped when I need it without the keys, so I did not test it properly.

I was thinking in reviving the RW version Airwave was working on (here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23388-Deck-MUD-%28Metalworker%29&p=920070&viewfull=1#post920070)). b2b is seeing more play than blood moon, so we still get to use the cavern on artificer for stoneforge/welder, play some basics, etc. A perfect shell for batterskull and traxos. playing a few moxen can help casting colored stuff and casting T1 blood moon or blood sun.

[Airwave]

I think I'll test traxos in the Endbringer slot. I tried Meteor Golem as another way to remove main b2b and other annoying things, but it seems underwhelming at best.

Is Traxos working well without a batterskull? I'm afraid it may just be tapped when I need it without the keys, so I did not test it properly.

I was thinking in reviving the RW version Airwave was working on (here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23388-Deck-MUD-%28Metalworker%29&p=920070&viewfull=1#post920070)). b2b is seeing more play than blood moon, so we still get to use the cavern on artificer for stoneforge/welder, play some basics, etc. A perfect shell for batterskull and traxos. playing a few moxen can help casting colored stuff and casting T1 blood moon or blood sun.

I've never thought of Traxos in that shell, it could certainly work I guess, with all the artifact-lands in there :smile:

[Silverflame]

I thought of a card to try and beat Goblins. Since they are not running Tuktuk Scrapper/ tin-street/wear&tear anymore and relying on cratermaker and trashmaster to do their job. Cursed Totem may be useful. It barrs krenko and kiki too, so they have to try to overrun us with siege gang and lords, a game we are better equipped to win. Of course it also hurts us, but you can get back the value of wurmcoil and simply hold until you are at a winning position. Granted if it is a weird list with some extra artifact removal, you'll probably have extra time to prepare.
It also hurts elves, but they have outs on GSZ to reclamation Sage.
I'm packing 2 totems and 1 torpor orb SB.
I'm gonna try it friday in my training group.

[Jorruk]

I thought of a card to try and beat Goblins. Since they are not running Tuktuk Scrapper/ tin-street/wear&tear anymore and relying on cratermaker and trashmaster to do their job. Cursed Totem may be useful. It barrs krenko and kiki too, so they have to try to overrun us with siege gang and lords, a game we are better equipped to win. Of course it also hurts us, but you can get back the value of wurmcoil and simply hold until you are at a winning position. Granted if it is a weird list with some extra artifact removal, you'll probably have extra time to prepare.
It also hurts elves, but they have outs on GSZ to reclamation Sage.
I'm packing 2 totems and 1 torpor orb SB.
I'm gonna try it friday in my training group.

That's actually a pretty good idea IMO. It shuts down MW but otherwise you don't really rely on kuldotha against goblins ... It is also depending on the number of ballista you are running (just a 1-of in my list).
I can also see a utility of this card agaist grisel (not sure how it actually plays out)

[Silverflame]

That's actually a pretty good idea IMO. It shuts down MW but otherwise you don't really rely on kuldotha against goblins ... It is also depending on the number of ballista you are running (just a 1-of in my list).
I can also see a utility of this card agaist grisel (not sure how it actually plays out)

I think against griselbrand it's not good enough, because you're on a 3 turn clock. If its S&T they could also go emrakul or omniscience, if it's burning reanimator on sideboarded games they tend to switch to plan B (casting grave titan). Against stoneforge, they'll just fetch jitte instead of batterskull, so it's more useful to use torpor orb against blade and D&T.
I believe totem to be worth using against goblins, elves, maverick, infect (stops noble) and BG depths (stops hexmage, but we can't kuldotha, so it may backfire). A card worth using in 5 matches sounds good enough for me.

[Jorruk]

I think against griselbrand it's not good enough, because you're on a 3 turn clock. If its S&T they could also go emrakul or omniscience, if it's burning reanimator on sideboarded games they tend to switch to plan B (casting grave titan). Against stoneforge, they'll just fetch jitte instead of batterskull, so it's more useful to use torpor orb against blade and D&T.
I believe totem to be worth using against goblins, elves, maverick, infect (stops noble) and BG depths (stops hexmage, but we can't kuldotha, so it may backfire). A card worth using in 5 matches sounds good enough for me.

Totally agree with goblins, elves, maverick and BG depths but against infect I'm not totally sold on it. Shutting down MW, kuldotha, ballista and eventually steel hellkite is quite the opposite you want

[Airwave]

Wizards, if you're listening, we would like an artifact with both the Cursed Totem and Torpor Orb effect together :laugh:

[Silverflame]

Totally agree with goblins, elves, maverick and BG depths but against infect I'm not totally sold on it. Shutting down MW, kuldotha, ballista and eventually steel hellkite is quite the opposite you want

On a second thought, I think you're right. The best play we have against infect is a huge ballista.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

The best card against infect is serrated arrows

It’s narrow but can shoot down 3 infect creatures even if they’re pumped and only costs 4 mana to cast

[bruizar]

The best card against infect is serrated arrows

It’s narrow but can shoot down 3 infect creatures even if they’re pumped and only costs 4 mana to cast

I used to play a Stax build with serrated arrows, contagion clasp and a 1-off contagion engine which allowed me to control the board very effectively through proliferate. Clasp comes down on turn 1 which can be very important against infect.

[Jorruk]

I used to play a Stax build with serrated arrows, contagion clasp and a 1-off contagion engine which allowed me to control the board very effectively through proliferate. Clasp comes down on turn 1 which can be very important against infect.

Actually I think we are quite well prepared for the infect MU with our playset of lodestone, chalice, some 3-ball and Ugin.
We just have to be carefull and block when they can become immense us.
As least that is how I dow and it works quite well. Post board I bring thorns of amethyst, warping wail and I side out platinum emperion, sundering titan, coercive portal, wurmcoil.

[Silverflame]

I've just played a tournament with 84 players, finishing 11º, one win/ID from top 8.

4 Chalice of the Void
1 Citanul Flute
4 Grim Monolith
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Lightning Greaves
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Meteor Golem
1 Platinum Emperion
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Staff of Domination
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
2 Thran Dynamo
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Walking Ballista
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Inventors' Fair
3 Vesuva
Sideboard:

1 All Is Dust
1 Boompile
3 Cursed Totem
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Torpor Orb
1 Trinisphere
1 Voltaic Key


Round 1 - Storm
G1- I'm paired with a player I don't know. I win the die roll. I keep a hand with cloudpost, vesuva, glimmer, 2 chalice, metalworker.
I play land go. He duress my chalice, petal, thoughtseize, taking the other chalice. I believe he is on storm (don't know if vanilla or the phoenix version). He never goes off, just playing cantrips. I keep playing glimmers to gain life, find another chalice and an emperion and he scoops.
Side in: thorn, sphere, trinisphere, surgical, ratchet bomb
Side out: sundering titan, 2 spyglass, flute.

G2- He ponders, I play chalice on 1, having a metalworker, wurmcoil and surgical in hand. I think about casting surgical on his BS, what would prevent him from casting other 2 during the game. I play lodestone, he casts echoing truth on it and, scultps his hand and go off on turn 4. When he casts the 2nd cabal ritual, I cast surgical on it. I see a warrens and a petal in his hand. He makes 12 tokens. I play wurmcoil. He finds echoing truth and hits me for 12, next turn I play glimmer for 3, cast coil, he swings, bringing me to 9. I play steel hellkite, block again going to 6 and hit him for 15, closing the game.

1-0
Round 2 - UW Blade
I'm playing my friend from the last report. I'm not sure whate he is on.
G1- I win the die roll. I keep a hand with 1 cloudposts, 1 vesuva, 1 glimmerpost, metalworker, 2 lodestones. I scry down a dynamo. I play post go. He plays flooded strands go, so he is not on elves. I play vesuva, chalice, that is pierced. He plays wasteland, destroy my post. I draw a monolith, try casting, it is pierced. He plays stoneforge fetching batterskull, I resolve a spyglass on stoneforge. I try casting flute, he snaps pierce. I'm beaten without doing anything relevant.
Side In: thorn, key, all is dust, ratchet bomb, boompile, torpor orb
Side out: Sundering titan, flute, 2 ballista, 2 wurmcoil
G2- I keep a hand with tomb, thorn, spyglass, monolith, chalice, lodestone, scrying down an emperion.
I play spyglass and see 2 islands, 1 plains, stoneforge, fow, back to basics, floode strands. I cry inside. Name stoneforge.
Game goes downhill quickly, I try casting thorn to delay him from playing back to basics, but I end up only drawing lands 3 turns later and I'm never in the game.

1-1
Round 3 - D&T
I'm playing a friend from the store, he usually is on D&T and disllikes playing against me because I always win.
G1- I keep a hand with 2 cloudopost, vesuva, glimmer, worker, chalice.
He plays some wastelands and rishadan port to slow me down, fetching batterskull from a stoneforge. I play lodestone, but do not block for a few turns. I have a meteor golem in hand, but he has enough mana to bounce the batterskull, so I keep alternating between tapping the batterskull with staff or getting hit to have mana to advance my game. I go down to 6 and cast a 5/5 ballista, that soon takes over the game.

Side In: torpor orb, ratchet bomb, all is dust, key, spyglass
Side out: sundering titan, meteor golem, kuldotha.

G2- I play chalice on 1 from tomb, then spyglass to stop his port. I see thalia, leonin relic-warden, karakas, plains, cataclysm and council judgment, I name rishadan port. With my posts free, I'm able to cast wurmcoil to bait his council. Instead, he plays warden. I play a second spyglass holding his drew ratchet bomb. I play a second wurm, holding ugin to clear the board before he cataclysms. He casts imperial recruit, fetching jailer and destroys the spyglass holding port. It wasn't necessary anyway as I have 8 mana without it. He swings with warden. I cast a ballista, killing his warden and swing for 6.He casts jailer, but I still have a 1/1 ballista and another coil. I cast ugin, taking his jailer and swinging, becoming the monarch. He plays cataclysm, but it was too late.

2-1
Round 4 - Burn
G1- Game goes uneventful, goblin guide hits me, showing another chalice, I play T1 chalice for 1, T2, chalice for 2, wurmcoil and she scoops.

Side In: thorn, trini, key, sphere
Side out: Sundering titan, 2 spyglass, 1 ugin

G2- She plays land go. I play chalice on 1, she responds with a bolt. T2 I cast a chalice on 2. she still hits me with rift bolt and skewer. I go down to 5, but I have a ballista hitting and growing every turn.

3-1
Round 5 - W Eldrazi

G1- He plays eldrazi temple, go. I cast a monolith to cast a wurmcoil next turn. He plays eye of ugin, TKS, taking my wurmcoil. I'm hit once, then I cast lodestone that halts him for a few turns, until he decides to trade. I have an emperion and sundering titan in hand, since he have a plains, I play the titan. He scoops.
Side In: voltaic, torpor, sphere, sorcerous spyglass
Side out: -4 chalice

G2- He wastes my cloudpost and I play cavern into city to mw. He plays TKS taking a lodestone, and I play a wurmcoil. He casts a 1/3 creature that removes target creature while it is in play and a ballista for 1. I trade my ballista for his creature, setting my wurmcoil free. He tries to slow me with a 3/2 thalia, but I already developed my mana base and cast a 5/5 ballista that takes over the game.

4-1
Round 6 - W Bomberman
I'm playing the feature match with the first guy that I lost to in a legacy tournament. I didn't scout, so I don't know what he is on.
G1- I win the die roll. I go tomb chalice on 1. He goes city of traitors, petal monastery mentor. I'm not sure what is happening. I play a metalworker. He casts five 0-cost artifact and swings. I die in 2 turns.
Side In: sphere, thorn, key, ratchet bomb, all is dust
Side out: titan, 2 spyglass, meteor golem.

G2- I should have mulliganed this. I play land go. He makes a mentor. I play greaves to cast metalworker next turn and go bonkers. T2 He casts led, petal, auriok salvagers and goes infinite.

4-2
Round 7 - Eldrazi Aggro.
G1 - I win the die roll. Cloudpost go. Opponent plays city, chalice on 1. I play tomb, metalworker. He casts TKS taking my wurmcoil. I cast a lodestone to trade. He casts 2 mimics and I cast a chalice for 5. Somehow I draw all 4 metalworkers and keep throwing stuff at him, until I draw a hellkite that takes over the game.
Side In: spyglass, bomb, key, torpor orb, sphere
side out: 2 ugin, 3 chalice

G2 - He ramps to TKS while I ramp to mw. He takes my emperion, but I get a wurmcoil online, he plays smasher pass. When I swing, he casts dismember on the coil, to no avail. Smasher dies, coild makes tokens. I get flute online, bringing ballista to clear the mimics. He scoops.

All games were either 2-0 or 0-2. Thorn and spyglass should be voltaic keys and maybe torpor orb should be another meteor golem, other than that, the list worked very well.

[TheBulwark]

I've never thought of Traxos in that shell, it could certainly work I guess, with all the artifact-lands in there :smile:


Traxos is a cast trigger

[Jorruk]

I've just played a tournament with 84 players, finishing 11º, one win/ID from top 8.

4 Chalice of the Void
1 Citanul Flute
4 Grim Monolith
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Lightning Greaves
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Meteor Golem
1 Platinum Emperion
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Staff of Domination
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
2 Thran Dynamo
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Walking Ballista
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Inventors' Fair
3 Vesuva
Sideboard:

1 All Is Dust
1 Boompile
3 Cursed Totem
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Torpor Orb
1 Trinisphere
1 Voltaic Key


Round 1 - Storm
G1- I'm paired with a player I don't know. I win the die roll. I keep a hand with cloudpost, vesuva, glimmer, 2 chalice, metalworker.
I play land go. He duress my chalice, petal, thoughtseize, taking the other chalice. I believe he is on storm (don't know if vanilla or the phoenix version). He never goes off, just playing cantrips. I keep playing glimmers to gain life, find another chalice and an emperion and he scoops.
Side in: thorn, sphere, trinisphere, surgical, ratchet bomb
Side out: sundering titan, 2 spyglass, flute.

G2- He ponders, I play chalice on 1, having a metalworker, wurmcoil and surgical in hand. I think about casting surgical on his BS, what would prevent him from casting other 2 during the game. I play lodestone, he casts echoing truth on it and, scultps his hand and go off on turn 4. When he casts the 2nd cabal ritual, I cast surgical on it. I see a warrens and a petal in his hand. He makes 12 tokens. I play wurmcoil. He finds echoing truth and hits me for 12, next turn I play glimmer for 3, cast coil, he swings, bringing me to 9. I play steel hellkite, block again going to 6 and hit him for 15, closing the game.

1-0
Round 2 - UW Blade
I'm playing my friend from the last report. I'm not sure whate he is on.
G1- I win the die roll. I keep a hand with 1 cloudposts, 1 vesuva, 1 glimmerpost, metalworker, 2 lodestones. I scry down a dynamo. I play post go. He plays flooded strands go, so he is not on elves. I play vesuva, chalice, that is pierced. He plays wasteland, destroy my post. I draw a monolith, try casting, it is pierced. He plays stoneforge fetching batterskull, I resolve a spyglass on stoneforge. I try casting flute, he snaps pierce. I'm beaten without doing anything relevant.
Side In: thorn, key, all is dust, ratchet bomb, boompile, torpor orb
Side out: Sundering titan, flute, 2 ballista, 2 wurmcoil
G2- I keep a hand with tomb, thorn, spyglass, monolith, chalice, lodestone, scrying down an emperion.
I play spyglass and see 2 islands, 1 plains, stoneforge, fow, back to basics, floode strands. I cry inside. Name stoneforge.
Game goes downhill quickly, I try casting thorn to delay him from playing back to basics, but I end up only drawing lands 3 turns later and I'm never in the game.

1-1
Round 3 - D&T
I'm playing a friend from the store, he usually is on D&T and disllikes playing against me because I always win.
G1- I keep a hand with 2 cloudopost, vesuva, glimmer, worker, chalice.
He plays some wastelands and rishadan port to slow me down, fetching batterskull from a stoneforge. I play lodestone, but do not block for a few turns. I have a meteor golem in hand, but he has enough mana to bounce the batterskull, so I keep alternating between tapping the batterskull with staff or getting hit to have mana to advance my game. I go down to 6 and cast a 5/5 ballista, that soon takes over the game.

Side In: torpor orb, ratchet bomb, all is dust, key, spyglass
Side out: sundering titan, meteor golem, kuldotha.

G2- I play chalice on 1 from tomb, then spyglass to stop his port. I see thalia, leonin relic-warden, karakas, plains, cataclysm and council judgment, I name rishadan port. With my posts free, I'm able to cast wurmcoil to bait his council. Instead, he plays warden. I play a second spyglass holding his drew ratchet bomb. I play a second wurm, holding ugin to clear the board before he cataclysms. He casts imperial recruit, fetching jailer and destroys the spyglass holding port. It wasn't necessary anyway as I have 8 mana without it. He swings with warden. I cast a ballista, killing his warden and swing for 6.He casts jailer, but I still have a 1/1 ballista and another coil. I cast ugin, taking his jailer and swinging, becoming the monarch. He plays cataclysm, but it was too late.

2-1
Round 4 - Burn
G1- Game goes uneventful, goblin guide hits me, showing another chalice, I play T1 chalice for 1, T2, chalice for 2, wurmcoil and she scoops.

Side In: thorn, trini, key, sphere
Side out: Sundering titan, 2 spyglass, 1 ugin

G2- She plays land go. I play chalice on 1, she responds with a bolt. T2 I cast a chalice on 2. she still hits me with rift bolt and skewer. I go down to 5, but I have a ballista hitting and growing every turn.

3-1
Round 5 - W Eldrazi

G1- He plays eldrazi temple, go. I cast a monolith to cast a wurmcoil next turn. He plays eye of ugin, TKS, taking my wurmcoil. I'm hit once, then I cast lodestone that halts him for a few turns, until he decides to trade. I have an emperion and sundering titan in hand, since he have a plains, I play the titan. He scoops.
Side In: voltaic, torpor, sphere, sorcerous spyglass
Side out: -4 chalice

G2- He wastes my cloudpost and I play cavern into city to mw. He plays TKS taking a lodestone, and I play a wurmcoil. He casts a 1/3 creature that removes target creature while it is in play and a ballista for 1. I trade my ballista for his creature, setting my wurmcoil free. He tries to slow me with a 3/2 thalia, but I already developed my mana base and cast a 5/5 ballista that takes over the game.

4-1
Round 6 - W Bomberman
I'm playing the feature match with the first guy that I lost to in a legacy tournament. I didn't scout, so I don't know what he is on.
G1- I win the die roll. I go tomb chalice on 1. He goes city of traitors, petal monastery mentor. I'm not sure what is happening. I play a metalworker. He casts five 0-cost artifact and swings. I die in 2 turns.
Side In: sphere, thorn, key, ratchet bomb, all is dust
Side out: titan, 2 spyglass, meteor golem.

G2- I should have mulliganed this. I play land go. He makes a mentor. I play greaves to cast metalworker next turn and go bonkers. T2 He casts led, petal, auriok salvagers and goes infinite.

4-2
Round 7 - Eldrazi Aggro.
G1 - I win the die roll. Cloudpost go. Opponent plays city, chalice on 1. I play tomb, metalworker. He casts TKS taking my wurmcoil. I cast a lodestone to trade. He casts 2 mimics and I cast a chalice for 5. Somehow I draw all 4 metalworkers and keep throwing stuff at him, until I draw a hellkite that takes over the game.
Side In: spyglass, bomb, key, torpor orb, sphere
side out: 2 ugin, 3 chalice

G2 - He ramps to TKS while I ramp to mw. He takes my emperion, but I get a wurmcoil online, he plays smasher pass. When I swing, he casts dismember on the coil, to no avail. Smasher dies, coild makes tokens. I get flute online, bringing ballista to clear the mimics. He scoops.

All games were either 2-0 or 0-2. Thorn and spyglass should be voltaic keys and maybe torpor orb should be another meteor golem, other than that, the list worked very well.

that is a nice report you got here !
The list is however a bit too spicy for me :p

How do you feel about the surgical ? I tried it in the past but I switched back to faerie (or leyline sometimes) because of the nonbo with chalice. Most of the time you try to stick a chalice on 1 against decks where surgical is useful : rea, phoenix, dredge.


On another topic, I also tried traxos in my list for ~10 games. I'm still uncertain about it, it doesn't have the same impact as our big payoffs and is still reliant on our draws. I need more time to test it but for the "big" event i'm going to attend this week end I'm not sure he will be in my list.

[Airwave]

Traxos is a cast trigger

Thanks. So that doesn't work as I thought it would :eyebrow:

[Silverflame]

that is a nice report you got here !
The list is however a bit too spicy for me :p

How do you feel about the surgical ? I tried it in the past but I switched back to faerie (or leyline sometimes) because of the nonbo with chalice. Most of the time you try to stick a chalice on 1 against decks where surgical is useful : rea, phoenix, dredge.


Thanks, I'm trying to keep notes on what is sided in and out immediately after the game, but sometimes I forget to do it.
Surgical is better in a few matches, like maverick and lands that if you doesn't take the loams, they can do lots of stuff even with a spyglass on wasteland and in those matches you may prefer to start with chalice on zero if you keep it. I like surgical way better than faeries, but as you said, there is the nonbo. I was running 3 faeries as they can be fetched with flute. I really recommend you try Citanul Flute, the card is insane in our deck, specially with 2-3 ballista.

[Jorruk]

Thanks, I'm trying to keep notes on what is sided in and out immediately after the game, but sometimes I forget to do it.
Surgical is better in a few matches, like maverick and lands that if you doesn't take the loams, they can do lots of stuff even with a spyglass on wasteland and in those matches you may prefer to start with chalice on zero if you keep it. I like surgical way better than faeries, but as you said, there is the nonbo. I was running 3 faeries as they can be fetched with flute. I really recommend you try Citanul Flute, the card is insane in our deck, specially with 2-3 ballista.

I see your point.
I will first have to buy the card :p But yeah it seems interesting.
Although I really like the possibility to fetch for anything with kuldotha, it seems harder than before to have enough artifacts to sack. For now I am only playing 1 ballista, mainly because of the fact I'm still playing with 3 kuldotha. I guess if you are on the citanul flute plan you can go down to 1 kuldotha and add more ballista. I guess I will try your stock list when I got time :)

[kathor]

Hello everyone.
New legacy and new MUD player here. Played my second legacy evening and played MUD for the first time. I had some deck pieces for a big while and thought about playing this deck after talking to some people from my LGS. Someone recommended the forum to me and i read quite a bit here to get a decklist and sideboard together. This was extremly useful, especially the match reports. The games were really fun and i ended up playing 3:1 for the day with 11 people playing at the FNM. My decklist is nearly a copy of Jorruks decklist i think: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/spicy-mud-legacy/

Match 1 Infect:
Game 1
Me 1: I start with Ancient Tomb, nothing
Opponent 1: Land, Glistener Elf
Me 2: Glimmerpost and Metal Worker
Opponent 2: Land, Attacks, I block with Metalworker, he pumps to kill MetalWorker
Me 3: Ancient Tomb, Trinisphere
Opponent 3: Land, Noble Hierarch, attacks for 2 infect
Me 4: Cloudpost, Wurm Coil
Opponent 4: Mana Ponder, Land, go
Me 5: Land, Ugin -1, opponent concedes

Sideboard: In: Staff of Nin, 2x Ratched Bomb. Out: Platinum Emperion, Sorcerous Spyglass, Coercive Portal

Game 2:
Opponent 1: Land, Noble Hierarch
Me 1: Cloudpost, go
Opponent 2: Land, Noble Hierarch, Noble Hierarch, Glistener Elf
Me 2: Ratchet Bomb
Opponent 3: Attacks for 4 Infect, plays blighted Agent, i tick up Ratched bomb
Me 3: Blow up Ratched bomb, play Staff of Nin ping blighted Agent, wipe his board.
Opponent 4: land, go
Me 4: Lodstone Golem
Opponent 5: Brainstorm, fetch, go
Me 5: draw, play stuff, opponent concedes

Match 2 Green Stompy (spicy brew)
Game 1:
Me 1: Post, go
Opponent 1: Land, Llanowar elf,
Me 2: Land, Grim Monolith, Metalworker
Opponent 2: Land, Elvish Mystic, Naturalize (MAIN DECK?!?) on Metalworker
Me 3: Land, Grim Monolith, Steel Hellkite
Opponent 3: Land, Natural Order for Cloudthresher
Me 4: Attack, pump Hellkite to trade with Cloudthresher, play something
Opponent Turn 4: Play Rhonas (?)
Me 5: Land,

Sideboard: In: 2xEnsnaring Bridge, Wurmcoil. Out: 2xSorcerous Spyglass, Sundering Titan,
Game 2:
Opponent 1: Land, go
Me 1: Land, go
Opponent 2: Land, Rofellos
Me 2: Land, Chalice on 1
Opponent 3: Land, tap Rofellos for 3, play Terra Stomper (8/8 Trample)
Me 3: Land, Trinisphere (nothing better in hand)
Opponent 4: Attack for 8, Natural Order (sac Rofellos) get Worldspine Wurm (15/15)
Me 4: No answer in hand, i concede

Game 3:
Me 1: Post, go
Opponent 1: Land, Llanowar Elf,
Me 2: Post, Chalice on 1
Opponent 2: Land, Rofellos
Me 3: Land, Thrandynamo, Trinisphere
Opponent 3: Rhonas, Natural Order for Woldspine Wurm (15/15)
Me 4: Land, Wurmcoil Engine
Opponent 4: Punts by playing Beast Within pre Combat, and i have 3 blockers, so it is not lethal, deathtouches kills Wurm, she gets 3 5/5 tokens
Me 5: I miss 1 mana for Ugin, because Trinisphere increases cost for Grim Monolith, i concede


I made some mistakes here, since Trinisphere is bad in this matchup and i should have sided it out for All is Dust and Spine.
This was my second legacy evening ever, so i only played elves combo and thought Trinisphere is more relevant. I could have played Walking Ballista in Game 2 early to kill the Elves, which could have helped

Match 3 Mill:
Game 1:
Opponent 1: Island, 1cmc mill me for 5
Me 1: Ancient Tomb, Chalice on 1
Opponent 2: Island, 1cmc and trys to bluff, I counter with chalice
Me 2: Land, Metal Worker
Opponent 3: Land, Sanity Grinder (UUU) mill me for 14
Me 3: Show some Artifacts, Play Kuldotha
Opponent 4: Mill me some more
Me 4: Land, Lightning Greaves, Use Koldotha for Blighsteel, equib Lightning Greaves, opponent dies

Sideboard: In: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass, 2 Thorn of Amethyst. Out: Steel Hellkite, Platinum Emperion, Sundering Titan

Game 2:
Opponent 1: Shelldock Isle tapped, go
Me 1: Ancient Tomb, Chalice on 1
Opponent 2: Shelldock Isle tapped, go
Me 2: Land, Metal Morker
Opponent 3: Land, Jace's Archivist
Me 3: Land, Grim Monolith, Thrandynamo
Opponent 4: Wheels the hand, plays something
Me 4: Land, Staff of Dominiation, draw 1, Combo out

Match 4 UBrea:
Game 1:
Me 1: Ancient Tomb, Sorcerous Spyglass. He has (Fetchland, Ponder, Dark Ritual, Unmask, 2 unrelevant spells)
I can choose Griselbrand or Polluted Delta, to keep him off mana. I choose Polluted Delta, hoping to get 2 turns
Opponent 1: Draws Lotus Petal, Plays Ponder
Me 2: Land, something
Opponent 2: Land, Dark Ritual, Entomb for Griselbrand, Shallow Grave, Reanimate Griselbrand, draw 14, play some spells, Entomb Emrakul, Shallow Grave, attack for lethal

Sideboard In: Sorcerous Spyglass, 2 Thorn of Amethyst, 2 Ensnaring Bridge, 3 Faerie Macabre. Out: Platinum Emperion, Steel Hellkite, 2xUgin, Sundering Titan, Walking Ballista, Wurmcoil, Coercive Portal

Game 2:
I mull to 6 and have a low mana hate hand (Wasteland, Faerie, Thorn Amethyst, Spyglass, Ensnaring Bridge, Metalworker)
Me 1: Play Wasteland
Opponent 1: Land, 2x Lotus Petal, Cabal Therapy for Chalice, no chalice in hand, Unmasks by Exiling Griselbrand to discard my Thorn. Nice 3 for 1
Me 2: Draw Ancient Tomb, Play Spyglass on Griselbrand
Opponent 2: Land, go (can't play much because of Faerie)
Me 3: Land, Ensnaring Bridge,
Opponent 3: Land, go
Me 4: Land, Baby Karn (+1, get some land)
next few turns i minus Karn for a token and start beating down with 5/5 construct, while opponents cant play much though more hatepieces

Game 3:
Opponent 1: Land, Cabal Therapy on Chalice, i have no chalice
Me 1: land, thorn
Opponent 2: pass
Me 2: land, pass
Opponent 3: land
Me 3: land, Lodstone
Opponent 4: land, pass
Me 4: land, attack with lodstone, play Wurmcoil
Opponent 5: brainstorm for 3
Me 5: attack with both for 11
Opponent concedes

------ I might have shortcutted some off the longer games, since i couldn't remember every step.

Super happy with my first day of the deck. Made a few minor misplays against the unknown green stompy deck, but she had crazy good draws. Just like i did most of the games. I am still unsure about a few cards in the the deck.
The Steel Hellkite feels a little bit off and i might exchange it for another Walking Ballista. Also one Kuldrotha might be exchanged for Citanul Flute for testing.
I was also thinking about Torpor Orb in the sideboard against Elves and DNT, which are also in our meta.

I am also asking myself, how useful the Wastelands are or if Buried Ruins, Karakas or other Utility Lands might be good alternatives. How useful do you find it? Is it a good tool in a Dark Depths matchup?

[Silverflame]

Hello everyone.
New legacy and new MUD player here. Played my second legacy evening and played MUD for the first time. I had some deck pieces for a big while and thought about playing this deck after talking to some people from my LGS. Someone recommended the forum to me and i read quite a bit here to get a decklist and sideboard together. This was extremly useful, especially the match reports. The games were really fun and i ended up playing 3:1 for the day with 11 people playing at the FNM. My decklist is nearly a copy of Jorruks decklist i think: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/spicy-mud-legacy/
[...]
Super happy with my first day of the deck. Made a few minor misplays against the unknown green stompy deck, but she had crazy good draws. Just like i did most of the games. I am still unsure about a few cards in the the deck.
The Steel Hellkite feels a little bit off and i might exchange it for another Walking Ballista. Also one Kuldrotha might be exchanged for Citanul Flute for testing.
I was also thinking about Torpor Orb in the sideboard against Elves and DNT, which are also in our meta.

I am also asking myself, how useful the Wastelands are or if Buried Ruins, Karakas or other Utility Lands might be good alternatives. How useful do you find it? Is it a good tool in a Dark Depths matchup?

First of all, welcome!
Your sideboarding decisions on the report were accurate, even though trini didn't work against mono green, it feels like something right to sideboard in against unknown fast mana decks so they can only cast 1 spell per turn. I believe you'll find the deck is very powerful and can be built in a lot of different ways, so the hardest decisions is whether to mulligan some hands or not.
Hellkite is useful against a lot of decks as a catch all removal, specially as we have greaves, it can steal games on its own, but depending on your meta it may be right to cut it.
Flute is one of the must answer noncreature artifacts, and since you can activate it for a ballista as soon as it enters, it will always be 2 for 1 at least.
Torpor orb is very strong against D&T and Elves, although they can remove it with council's and krosan grip, it usually gains you a few turns to develop your board. We tend to go bigger, so that is very useful for us.

BG Depths is a bad matchup, so the key cards are wasteland, karakas, staff of domination (tap the token), spyglass (thespian if it is not on the board yet because they will copy something, otherwise, Hexmage), thespian stage (they need to remove yours before trying to go off if you keep 2 mana up) and kuldotha for emperion. They have trophy and decay to remove our stuff, wasteland to deal with the lands, crop rotation to combo out of nowhere, etc I usually try to cast chalice on 1 and combo before them.
Lands on the other hand is significantly easier as they try to develop a board and lock you instead of just going for the combo. Spyglass on wasteland/ghost quarter and trinisphere go a long way.

War of the Spark spoilers are coming and we received this unconfirmed card:

Karn, the Great Creator (4)
Artifact abilities of artifacts your opponents control can't be activated.
+1 Until your next turn, up to one target noncreature artifact become an artifact with power and toughness equal to the amount of artifacts equal to their converted mana cost
-2 You may choose an artifact card you own from outside the game or in exile, reveal that card and add it to your hand
(5)

So with it we stop moxen, equipment, vial, engineered explosives, LED, lotus petal, ramp package from eldrazi and some other stuff.
Its +1 can unequip creatures, even tnn. They can't equip back. You can snipe their stuff, say that needle/spylgass with ballista.
-2 can give you access to sb hate in G1, Nevinyrral's Disk or Boompile or fetch for a Mycosynth Lattice so opponent can't tap lands for mana or activate any other abilities.

[1ron]

Karn, the Great Creator (4)
Artifact abilities of artifacts your opponents control can't be activated.
+1 Until your next turn, up to one target noncreature artifact become an artifact with power and toughness equal to the amount of artifacts equal to their converted mana cost
-2 You may choose an artifact card you own from outside the game or in exile, reveal that card and add it to your hand
(5)

So with it we stop moxen, equipment, vial, engineered explosives, LED, lotus petal, ramp package from eldrazi and some other stuff.
Its +1 can unequip creatures, even tnn. They can't equip back. You can snipe their stuff, say that needle/spylgass with ballista.
-2 can give you access to sb hate in G1, Nevinyrral's Disk or Boompile or fetch for a Mycosynth Lattice so opponent can't tap lands for mana or activate any other abilities.

I do think Karn is going to be fun for testing. I hope he works well in the shell.

I also think a really interesting card is Emergence Zone. I want to try it as a 1-of.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

The new Karn is insane! Do you think people will play it competitively in MUD or will it just get put into Eldrazi decks? Lol

[IPreferBagels]

This seems like it will have a home in the deck. Curving it into Mycosynth lattice seems extremely powerful and is a straight up lock.

[Airwave]

The new Karn is insane! Do you think people will play it competitively in MUD or will it just get put into Eldrazi decks? Lol

It seems to me like a very nice card indeed! Problem is, if many people think the same and will play it in, we're doomed. It's still a Null Rod :cry:

[grokh]

https://i.imgur.com/TnYzu7Z.png

Just been spoiled today !

Is it too expensive in mana cost for its effect or is it playable in MUD ?

[Silverflame]

It seems to me like a very nice card indeed! Problem is, if many people think the same and will play it in, we're doomed. It's still a Null Rod :cry:

I'm pretty sure ppl will use it against us too to kill chalices or lock our stuff. Probably Eldrazi and Tezzerator decks, maybe one or another combo. I don't think many other decks can rely on 4-mana answers in legacy, specially against a deck that increases cost of stuff.
It feels like it's made for MUD :smile:



God-Pharao's Statue: Is it too expensive in mana cost for its effect or is it playable in MUD ?
If it was 4-5 mana without the damage clause it would be auto include. We can't get to 6 mana reliably before the opponent can do its thing, so it can hose opponents endgame, like Jace and Liliana. I think it need some setup like the stax shell, T1 chalice, T2 tangle wire/trini, T3 Lodestone T4 this. Also in matches where chalice isn't useful, I tend to replace them with voltaic keys, so this would be easier to cast. I'm really not sure, it might end up being better than I think.

[Runninonwater]

Hello!

Im sort of returning (or well, trying)to legacy and I wonder how the MUD deck now looks like and works in todays legacy meta (ish since its so relative). I think i got most cards to work around with a shell. Last time i somewhat played legacy i got a playset of Karn, Scion of Urza.

[Airwave]

I'm pretty sure ppl will use it against us too to kill chalices or lock our stuff. Probably Eldrazi and Tezzerator decks, maybe one or another combo. I don't think many other decks can rely on 4-mana answers in legacy, specially against a deck that increases cost of stuff.
It feels like it's made for MUD :smile:


It's very interesting to see which ways the card will lead us. Will we put a number of "main"board cards in the sideboard as a 1-of, or find a complete new list/decktype altogether. I'm not sure yet. And Ugin is coming as well, unconfirmed still but powerful as well if correct :eek:



6 mana 4 loyalty

Colourless spell you cast cost 2 less to cast

+1: create a 2/2 spirit. Exile top card of your library face down, you may look at it. When the spirit leaves the battlefield, put the exile card into your hand.
-3: destroy target permanent thats one or more colours

[Airwave]

Hello!

Im sort of returning (or well, trying)to legacy and I wonder how the MUD deck now looks like and works in todays legacy meta (ish since its so relative). I think i got most cards to work around with a shell. Last time i somewhat played legacy i got a playset of Karn, Scion of Urza.

I think the meta is about to change, so no idea where MUD will end up in comparison to other decks. Karn, Scion of Urza is well-suited for the job, so acquiring a playset of them is always a good idea.

[Jorruk]

About the new Karn, except Eldrazi and steel stompy I don't really see any deck wanting to side this in. If they really hate artifacts they would have already sided in null rod.
I tried to brew a deck with the new Karn I ended up with this
MUD-KARNtech (http://www.lotusnoir.info/magic/decks/mud-karntech/)
I integrated the leyline package in prevision of the new mulligan, if this happens I will switch one vesuva for an urborg (still usefull when ancient tomb becomes painful).
Additionally I may replace the 2 voltaic keys by thorn of amethyst. Still have to figure this


Of cource Karn, silver golem is replaced with the new one. I will happily hear your returns :)

[Jorruk]

It's very interesting to see which ways the card will lead us. Will we put a number of "main"board cards in the sideboard as a 1-of, or find a complete new list/decktype altogether. I'm not sure yet. And Ugin is coming as well, unconfirmed still but powerful as well if correct :eek:

Ugin ?
I haven't seen it yet.
Where ?? :laugh:

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

https://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/272/920/636897394148819835.jpeg

this is an artifact. Metalworker seems a good way to pay for the X cost of this. You don't have to sacrifice permanents like you do with Forgemaster

[Jorruk]

Report from the last event I attended: we were 69 players
Sorry I should have done it Friday but I didn't have time so details are a bit blur.

R1 : Nicfit special brew : curses
the brew was quite surprising with the kill being curses (overwhelming splendor, cruel reality, the curse that search another curse at the beginning of each upkeep (curse of misfortune) etc etc)
I lose the first game despite a wurmcoil, he found arena rector for curse of misfortune followed by an overwhelming splendor. I never found ugin.
G2: I keep a hand with witchbane orb (lucky me !) that got discarded by toughtseize T1. I try to prepare the board with various rocks and greaves.
The game was won thanks to lodestone golem with greaves killing the liliana of the veil that made me sacrifice metal worker the turn before. He never found mana to cast arena and I put an ugin on the board.
G3: Also close one, I am cursed but luckily I found the witchbane orb followed by ugin.

1-0

R2: infect
I lose the die roll, he starts with a noble.
I followed by a t1 chalice that doesn't encounter force/daze.
T2 He played blighted agent.
T2 I cast trinisphere and the game is pretty much over.

G2 : He leads again with a noble, I follow by a ratchet bomb. Game goes on and I take a few beats but I keep it in check with ratchet bomb on 2. It was quickly followed by a trinisphere and then a steel Hellkite that quickly ended the game.

2-0

R3 Grixis Control
I lose the die roll and mull to 6.
He starts with a toughseize for a lodestone golem.
I play cloudpost and pass.
T2 He follow by hymn that discards by second land and metalworker I just drew. Game is quickly out of hand and I loose.
G2 : I mull to 5 and led with cloudpost and go. He plays a fetch and pass.
I play glimmerpost and play grim monolith.
He again has the hymn that discard all my "cheap" spell. I then proceeded to draw irrelevant card quickly fate sealed by a jace.
2-1

R4 UR delver-pteramander
I lose the die roll and mull to 6.
He leads with a delver and pass.
I play T1 chalice on 1 and pass.
He flips delver, plays a young pyro and passes.
I play a metalworker and pass.
He plays TNN and the game is quickly lost.
G2 I mull to 5 again and never find solutions.
2-2

R5 Burn
G1 He does burn things and I loose.
G2 Chalice and 1 followed by trinisphere and lodestone golem finish the game
G3 Chalice, lodestone and wurmcoil rode me to victory
3-2

R6 Mono red prison
I fought through blood moon with metalworker and Ugin both games
4-2

R7 Tin fins
I lose the die roll and he got me T2. Luckily I just played an ancient tomb so he has noe clue of what I'm playing.
G2 : Taxes and wurmcoil for the win
G3 : same as G2 but he helped me by fizzling.

Globally the list felt pretty solid and Karn, scion of Urza quite usefull.
For now I don't plan any change in the list. Lost against UR delver that I find slightly favorable, grixis control is always rough with Kcommand but twice hymn T2 doesn't help :p

If you want my sideboard, just ask :) .
List :



// MAIN DECK (61)
// Arpenteurs (3)
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
// Créatures (19)
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Steel Hellkite
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Walking Ballista
1 Blightsteel Colossus
// Sorts (15)
2 Thran Dynamo
1 Coercive Portal
1 Staff of Domination
2 Trinisphere
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Lightning Greaves
2 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
// Terrains (24)
2 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Wasteland
4 Glimmerpost
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Thespian's Stage
// SIDE DECK (15)
SB: 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 1 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Spine of Ish Sah
SB: 1 Staff of Nin
SB: 1 Witchbane Orb
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Warping Wail

[Airwave]

Ugin ?
I haven't seen it yet.
Where ?? :laugh:

It's on the rumor mill forum @ salvation. Let's see if it's the real thing :cool:

[Silverflame]

I know it's early to try a new list before the full spoilers are released, but I was thinking on something along these lines:

4 Wasteland
1 Myr Battlesphere
2 Trinisphere
1 Mycosynth Lattice
3 Mox Diamond
2 City of Traitors
1 Buried Ruin
1 Citanul Flute
2 Master Transmuter
2 Ash Barrens
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Metalworker
1 Staff of Domination
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Walking Ballista
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
2 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
3 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Kuldotha Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Grim Monolith
SB: 1 Walking Ballista
SB: 1 Boompile
SB: 1 Helm of Obedience
SB: 1 Blightsteel Colossus
SB: 1 Umbral Mantle
SB: 1 Witchbane Orb
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Steel Hellkite
SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
SB: 1 Spine of Ish Sah
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

A lot of combo kills. Against decks that use many nonbasics you can go the usual t1 trini+wastes and eventually crucible, transmuter can keep bouncing sundering titan for a lock destroying all of opponents lands (unfortunately, our islands too), you can wish for an umbral mantle if you have 2 artifacts in hand for an infinite metalworker beats, you can transmute/kuldtoha/wish for lattice, or if everything goes bad, you can side in the leylines and fetch the helm. I was working on UR including Goblin welder and Thopter Engineer but the manabase was getting bad, so I need to rethink before posting.


Troll_ov_Grimness I tried tinkering with Vivien's Arkbow but it didn't manage to make it work. By splashing green I tended to try and put exploration and if I play a color I can't use post, so I might as well use wastelands, so I then want ramunap or crucible and so on. I ended up with a worst aggro loam.

[forestfold]

I know it's early to try a new list before the full spoilers are released, but I was thinking on something along these lines:

3 Mox Diamond

4 Wasteland
2 City of Traitors
1 Buried Ruin
2 Ash Barrens
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb




Have you tested a lot with this? That is about the bare minimum for mox diamond to be viable, if you count wasteland as a mana source. I would almost think artifact lands and mox opal would be a better choice. But both ideas make my teeth hurt. 1000 year elixir is gas, one of my pet cards from back then. Have you liked it as a pseudo-key/greaves? Seems like the so-so half of haste isn't worth it, but not having to equip for it to work is awesome.

[Silverflame]

Have you tested a lot with this? That is about the bare minimum for mox diamond to be viable, if you count wasteland as a mana source. I would almost think artifact lands and mox opal would be a better choice. But both ideas make my teeth hurt. 1000 year elixir is gas, one of my pet cards from back then. Have you liked it as a pseudo-key/greaves? Seems like the so-so half of haste isn't worth it, but not having to equip for it to work is awesome.

I haven't tested it enough yet, so it may change considerably. A likely addition would be Academy Ruins
Since lately only elves and RUG seem to use null rod, we could include a few more synods. I wouldn't cut the islands as they also have their advantages.
1000 years-elixir ends up being better than boots here because you have more ways to lock the opponent with the creatures' abilities than in regular MUD. say if you have new karn on play and elixir, you can fetch the lattice, play a transmuter, activate it putting lattice in play immediately or just kuldotha for it. Also you could fetch for an umbral mantle, play metalworker and make infinite mana (with just 2 artifacts in hand).
Things to consider are transmuter is an artifact and an artificer, so cavern on artificer helps casting it and padeem. If you get padeem out, you can fetch for lattice and even if you lose karn, he will make all your permanents hexproof, plus the extra draw.
Other interesting artificers are stoneforge mystic, goblin welder, thopter engineer. For now, I believe using one color is better for consistency.

[malfie13]

If, and it's a big if, I was in a color, it's likely be red for blood sun, trash treasure, daretti and welder. Also, if you're dedicated to blue, maybe fabricate or impulse might be better for some options? I'd just caution dipping too heavily into symbols. Maybe even jvp would be a fair blue option. Depends what you're trying to do.

Im currently considering going full stax with mb bridges and winning without combat damage if I dedicate to karn. Im not 100pct, but toolboxing the sb seems too good to not do.

[1ron]

New ugin is so good.

Ugin, The Unspeakable

6

Legendary Planeswalker — Ugin

Colorless spells you cast cost 2 less.

+1: Exile the top card of your library face down and look at it. Create a 2/2 colorless Spirit creature token. When that token leaves the battlefield, put the exiled card in your hand.

-3: Destroy target permanent that is one or more colors.


4 starting loyalty

[malfie13]

I feel like this will be much better in modern eldrazi tron or even legacy eldrazi than it will be in our deck. Theres no obvious port in spot for it at 6 mana. Its solid, but how solid remains to be seen in legacy. It isnt as obvious absalom sunk as karn.

[1ron]

I agree, I think it'll be a 1-of in some decks. It definitely does seem better in modern.

By the way malfie, what does your list look like at the moment?

[malfie13]

I've been back and forth for a bit over the new karn, if you mean my new brewing. If you mean my current existing list, I havent typed it up in a hot minute. I'm on my way to legacy in a few. I'll try to type it up while I'm there.

[1ron]

I've been back and forth for a bit over the new karn, if you mean my new brewing. If you mean my current existing list


All of the above lol. I always really like your lists. I also do the lucky 61 and am not a huge fan of Wasteland, which I have never seen you run either.

[malfie13]

My current list:

Deck: Legacy MUD 4-13-19.dec

Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:17
1 Walking Ballista
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus

Artifacts:18
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Grim Monolith
1 Lightning Greaves
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Staff of Domination
1 Trinisphere
1 Ghirapur Orrery
2 Thran Dynamo
1 Spine of Ish Sah

Others:2
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:24
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Buried Ruin
2 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Karakas
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Vesuva

Sideboard:15
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tsabo's Web
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

[malfie13]

People love wasteland. I do too. I also run depths, lands, and pox. I don't like it in mud bc we want to ramp, and get punished by taking off our tempo.

[malfie13]

Also for an open meta my list would be slightly different, and I'm currently redesigning.

[1ron]

Don't get me wrong, I love the card. I just don't think the correct home is in MUD. The deck needs mana to go off.

[malfie13]

Speaking of.... I may go back to a singleton deserted temple in my list. Haven't totally decided. I also own a candelstix. Considering running within the sb for exactly miracles or stoneblade. Thoughts?

[malfie13]

I assume everyone already saw the new ee / ratchet bomb land. I feel like stax is becoming more of a possibility with each new bomb reveal.

[Airwave]

I assume everyone already saw the new ee / ratchet bomb land. I feel like stax is becoming more of a possibility with each new bomb reveal.

My god, that card is strong. Sweeps everything Chalice didn't catch :eek:

[malfie13]

More I think about it, the more I like it. Definitely strong with or without crucible. Obv better with. Also just happens to hit whole fields of 1 drops on etb

[malfie13]

My first thoughts about the colorless version of the deck would looks something like this after the new additions:

Deck: Legacy NEW MUD 4-19.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:14
1 Walking Ballista
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Platinum Emperion

Artifacts:20
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Staff of Domination
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Trinisphere
1 Orbs of Warding
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Spine of Ish Sah

Others:3
2 Karn, 4.0
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:23
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Buried Ruin
2 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Vesuva
1 Ratchet Bomb Land

Sideboard:15
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ghirapur Orrery
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Mycosynth Lattice

Would also consider an second emperion sb. I'm not sure wurmcoil will be where we want to be, either pre or post board. Might also entertain a second staff sb as well. This is not my final word, at all. This is going to take a lot of testing.

[malfie13]

So. My buddy tells me we've been 5-0ing leagues. I'm to write up some thoughts on how to sb in a new reality where we are a t1 deck. I cold called it when I heard about the mulligan rule. I was correct.

[Silverflame]

So. My buddy tells me we've been 5-0ing leagues. I'm to write up some thoughts on how to sb in a new reality where we are a t1 deck. I cold called it when I heard about the mulligan rule. I was correct.

Looking forward to see that sb guide, your comments are always insightful. Also, the new set will shake things up, so any help on predicting the meta shift will be most welcome.
As I said in the facebook group, I'm thinking on developing a small Mud app/site that helps building optimal decks for the strategy you want to play. My main idea is to have packages of cards (like the post ramp package, orrery+cloister package, etc) That you add. It is mostly for fun, but if it ends up being useful for someone, even better. I'm just having a hard time getting to actually sit in my desk and code, with the new job + studying to be a judge.
I seem to be having more sucess the farther I get from the prison package and closer to a big midrange with a combo. I ended up cutting trinisphere and it is only missed when facing goblins in the play, burn and storm, that are already good matches. Did any of you get such impression?

[forestfold]

So. My buddy tells me we've been 5-0ing leagues. I'm to write up some thoughts on how to sb in a new reality where we are a t1 deck. I cold called it when I heard about the mulligan rule. I was correct.

You playing MUD in Niagara anyway? I am feeling pretty good about it regardless of the old rule still in play.

[malfie13]

Its double Easter. So I'm with my family, as it is. Such scrappy timing. I'm Greek so my Easter is literally a week after Catholic Easter. I would be playing mud tho. Yes. It's well positioned.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Did you see Prismite spoiled in war of the spark?

2/1 artifact creature for cmc 2 that you can pay 2 and not tap to add a mana of any colour. Seems like an excellent way to add a colour for cards like goblin welder that you can also beat some face with. You can also cast it uncounterable with cavern of souls if you’ve named golem

[1ron]

Malfie I like your experimental list.

Why the razormane masticore?

I think the sideboard may need some work. Chalice seems awkward to get with karn.

Maybe another spine in the sideboard would be solid. Karn needs to be as toolboxy as possible.

Are you going to Atlanta? If so I want to buy you a beer.

[malfie13]

Malfie I like your experimental list.

Why the razormane masticore?

I think the sideboard may need some work. Chalice seems awkward to get with karn.

Maybe another spine in the sideboard would be solid. Karn needs to be as toolboxy as possible.

Are you going to Atlanta? If so I want to buy you a beer.

Razormane is so boss. You get to kill almost everything that relevent blocker, and leovold who is currently irrelevant. Also stonewalls a gurmag angler and can kill a gris daddy if they block and it has 3 damage on it.

Edit: Will always take a free beer!

Further edits: I ran razormane in the sb in every event I've done well in. It does also pitch cards behind a bridge and block a reality smasher before you have one. Its just a good utility knife. Still not sold on anything tho. I'll figure it out as I go before ATL and VA

[malfie13]

Here's the promised advice vs current possible hate from my past experiences in open play and in my meta where people absolutely hate me playing mud to the extent that one player threatened to start running the blue enchantment that gives all artifacts an upkeep cost of (2). Suffice to say, I have experiences, lol.

Legacy MUD SB Advice:

MB Tech that we already worry about exists. Goblins are annoying, of course, because of tutors, Trashmaster and Cratermaker, often main board, and the fact that any gobbo pieces already cost excess of 1, and they run Aether Vial if they go first. And they run Wasteland, Risidan Port, and Blood Moon, sometimes.

Other Common Issues Include:
Abrupt Decay (Main and Side in Turbo Depths and other GB Based Decks) (GB, and Uncounterable)
Fiery Confluence (RR2)
Goblin Trashmaster (RR2, also a lord and no acrtual mana cost to activate, but can be needled [CBN])
Flickerwisp (WW1, and can "reset chalice on 1" to zero)
Wasteland and Rishidan Port
Phyrexian Revoker (2) (Usually on Metalworker or Kuldotha Forgemaster. Can Neeedle anything but Lands, and does hit mana abilities).

Most of the important hate that will come in first is two mana. I am going to start with that, so remember it. Some of the most common sb tech has included, traditionally:

Null Rod (2)
Hurkyl's Recall (U1)
Abrade (R1)
Shattering Spree (R) (Replicate)
Ancient Grudge (R1)
Goblin Cratermaker (R1) (CBN)
Ratchet Bomb (2)
Leonin Relic-Warder (D and T) (WW)
Assassin's Trophy (GB) (Assasssin's Trophy IS NOT Abrupt Decay!! It can be countered!!)
Throne of Geth (2)
Phyrexian Revoker (2)
Soorcerous Spyglass (2)

Not commonly hit by chalice 2, but also common remvoal includes:
Wear // Tear (R/W1 [cmc3])
Krosan Grip (G2)
Engineered Explosives (xx, usually used on zero)) (CBN)
Virridian Corrupter (GG1) (Infect)
Palace Jailor (WW2) (D and T)
Reclamation Sage (G2) (Elves, Nic-Fit)
Vraska, Golgari Queen (Nic-Fit) (BG2) (CBN)


In other formats, the hate has adapted better than in legacy, and I would look to it to advise caution in sbing. OBIOUSLY, we havre the reloaded bonus of currently being allowed 4 Chaice of the Void. That invalidates the best removal vs us, Nature's Claim and Chain of Vapor.

In Vintage, removal inludes:
Subterraenean Tremors (Rx)
Meltdown (Rx)
By Force (Rx)
Gorilla Shaman (Creature, R)
Ingot Chewe (R4, but Evoke R)
And aforementioned cards.

The Rx cards are particularly annoying, as is the Shattering Spree. Ingot Chewer "Evoke, Casts for R" but has CMC 5, and cannot be needed

Lesson 1 : Chalice 2 is better than chalice one often vs decks with hella hate. However, remember that if you chalice 2 first, you cannot chalice 1...edited out following

Lesson 2: Trinisphere is only as good as you believe it is. Mind you that a lot of the best hate can and will be cast on or after t3 anyway.

Lesson 3: Taxes!! Making some of the cards un-castable is a valid plan. A Thorn of Amethyst into a Lodestone Golem is functionally played the same turn as Three-Ball, but doesnt tax us nearly as bad as opponent and allows us to better play through Wasteland and Rishidan Port. Be cautious with the use of actual Sphere of Resistence and Trinisphere. Vs certain strategies and decks, it can lock us out too.

Lesson 4: Some of our own answers get hit by chalice 2, so remember that when playing a chalice on 2. Thorn, Sphere of Resistance, Warping Wail, Spatial Contortion, Sorcerous Spyglass and Ratchet Bomb all cost 2. Price that in, for sure. Evaluate which sequence is best to play spells and remember that behind a bridge you can still cast them, they just get countered and go to the yard.

Lesson 5: Vs Reanimator, UB is much better of a match than WRG! BwRg reanimator. In both cases the most “MUST ANSWERy” card is Tidespout Tyrant. Blood Moon should be played around from BR, but is functionally less important than Wear // Tear, Sire of Insantiy and definitely Tidespout Tyrant.

Lesson 6: Vs elves be careful. If they get a super fast start including Wirewood Symbiote. A Symbiote into a Green Sun's Zenith for Reclamation Sage can be Game Over. That said, Symbiote can be Needled to keep rec sage from repeated bouncing. However, they ususaly also run Abrupt Decay, ee, and or Assassin's Trophy SB. EE can be put on 3, bc of the Birchlore Ranger.

[malfie13]

Edit: Included Disenchant and Council's Judgement. I'm a fish. And I play Stoneblade as my other deck. Yikes.

Legacy MUD SB Advice:

MB Tech that we already worry about exists. Goblins are annoying, of course, because of tutors, Trashmaster and Cratermaker, often main board, and the fact that any gobbo pieces already cost excess of 1, and they run Aether Vial if they go first. And they run Wasteland, Risidan Port, and Blood Moon, sometimes.

Other Common Issues Include:
Abrupt Decay (Main and Side in Turbo Depths and other GB Based Decks) (GB, and Uncounterable)
Fiery Confluence (RR2)
Goblin Trashmaster (RR2, also a lord and no acrtual mana cost to activate, but can be needled [CBN])
Flickerwisp (WW1, and can "reset chalice on 1" to zero)
Wasteland and Rishidan Port
Phyrexian Revoker (2) (Usually on Metalworker or Kuldotha Forgemaster. Can Neeedle anything but Lands, and does hit mana abilities).
Counci's Judgment (WW1)

Most of the important hate that will come in first is two mana. I am going to start with that, so remember it. Some of the most common sb tech has included, traditionally:

Null Rod (2)
Disenchant (W1)
Hurkyl's Recall (U1)
Abrade (R1)
Shattering Spree (R) (Replicate)
Ancient Grudge (R1)
Goblin Cratermaker (R1) (CBN)
Ratchet Bomb (2)
Leonin Relic-Warder (D and T) (WW)
Assassin's Trophy (GB) (Assasssin's Trophy IS NOT Abrupt Decay!! It can be countered!!)
Throne of Geth (2)
Phyrexian Revoker (2)
Soorcerous Spyglass (2)

Not commonly hit by chalice 2, but also common remvoal includes:
Wear // Tear (R/W1 [cmc3])
Krosan Grip (G2)
Engineered Explosives (xx, usually used on zero)) (CBN)
Virridian Corrupter (GG1) (Infect)
Palace Jailor (WW2) (D and T)
Reclamation Sage (G2) (Elves, Nic-Fit)
Vraska, Golgari Queen (Nic-Fit) (BG2) (CBN)
Back to Basics (U2)


In other formats, the hate has adapted better than in legacy, and I would look to it to advise caution in sbing. OBIOUSLY, we havre the reloaded bonus of currently being allowed 4 Chaice of the Void. That invalidates the best removal vs us, Nature's Claim and Chain of Vapor.

In Vintage, removal inludes:
Subterraenean Tremors (Rx)
Meltdown (Rx)
By Force (Rx)
Gorilla Shaman (Creature, R)
Ingot Chewe (R4, but Evoke R)
And aforementioned cards.

The Rx cards are particularly annoying, as is the Shattering Spree. Ingot Chewer "Evoke, Casts for R" but has CMC 5, and cannot be needed

Lesson 1 : Chalice 2 is better than chalice one often vs decks with hella hate. However, remember that if you chalice 2 first, you no longer chalice 1...unless you have to pay taxes, like thorn or sphere, which makes chalice 1 3 on the stack.

Lesson 2: Trinisphere is only as good as you believe it is. Mind you that a lot of the best hate can and will be cast on or after t3 anyway.

Lesson 3: Taxes!! Making some of the cards un-castable is a valid plan. A Thorn of Amethyst into a Lodestone Golem is functionally played the same turn as Three-Ball, but doesnt tax us nearly as bad as opponent and allows us to better play through Wasteland and Rishidan Port. Be cautious with the use of actual Sphere of Resistence and Trinisphere. Vs certain strategies and decks, it can lock us out too.

Lesson 4: Some of our own answers get hit by chalice 2, so remember that when playing a chalice on 2. Thorn, Sphere of Resistance, Warping Wail, Spatial Contortion, Sorcerous Spyglass and Ratchet Bomb all cost 2. Price that in, for sure. Evaluate which sequence is best to play spells and remember that behind a bridge you can still cast them, they just get countered and go to the yard.

Lesson 5: Vs Reanimator, UB is much better of a match than WRG! BwRg reanimator. In both cases the most “MUST ANSWERy” card is Tidespout Tyrant. Blood Moon should be played around from BR, but is functionally less important than Wear // Tear, Sire of Insantiy and definitely Tidespout Tyrant.

Lesson 6: Vs elves be careful. If they get a super fast start including Wirewood Symbiote. A Symbiote into a Green Sun's Zenith for Reclamation Sage can be Game Over. That said, Symbiote can be Needled to keep rec sage from repeated bouncing. However, they ususaly also run Abrupt Decay, ee, and or Assassin's Trophy SB. EE can be put on 3, bc of the Birchlore Ranger.

[1ron]

However, remember that if you chalice 2 first, you no longer chalice 1...unless you have to pay taxes, like thorn or sphere, which makes chalice 1 3 on the stack.

It is a 3 drop on the stack, but it is still a 2cmc spell so it would be countered by chalice on 2. Example: a Thalia would be countered by a chalice on 2 with a trinisphere or lodestone in play.

[malfie13]

It is a 3 drop on the stack, but it is still a 2cmc spell so it would be countered by chalice on 2. Example: a Thalia would be countered by a chalice on 2 with a trinisphere or lodestone in play.

Yup, checked with judges and edited. Was typing quickly. Works with converge, not cmc

[Silverflame]

So I was thiking if we MD new karn and new Ugin we can go more aggressive and use 4 Myr Superion as we have ugin to reduce cost to zero, metalworker and karn's animation ability to use on mana rocks. It is conveniently 5/6 to be above gurmag angler but doesn't work well with trinisphere+ cost reducer, so instead of trini, I'd recommend thorn MD.

[1ron]

So I was thiking if we MD new karn and new Ugin we can go more aggressive and use 4 Myr Superion as we have ugin to reduce cost to zero, metalworker and karn's animation ability to use on mana rocks. It is conveniently 5/6 to be above gurmag angler but doesn't work well with trinisphere+ cost reducer, so instead of trini, I'd recommend thorn MD.


Holy crap that's some smart tech.

What kind of list are you feeling?

[Silverflame]

Holy crap that's some smart tech.

What kind of list are you feeling?
I haven't tested it yet, just throwing ideas.

Unfortunately Myr Superion is a Myr (duh) not a golem, or else I'd go blue with Wing Splicer to guarantee the last dmg.
Basically its a turbo MUD with toolbox. You try to close the game as fast as possible, and if the opponent stabilizes, you have blast zone and 8 draw effects (portals and all the pws).
You can use key or Umbral Mantle to equip mishra's factory to cast superion or just to get 2:+2/+2. Or equip metalworker with 2 artifacts in hand to go infinite.

4 wasteland
4 mishra's factory
4 Ancient tomb
2 Cavern of Souls
1 karakas
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Buried Ruin
2 Mox Diamond
2 Blast Zone
3 city of traitors
4 grim monolith
1 Thran Dynamo

3 Chalice of the void
2 thorn of amethist
4 metalworker
4 lodestone golem
4 myr superion
1 Steel Hellkite
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Emperion
1 lightning greaves
1 Meteor Golem
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Coercive Portal
3 Karn, the great Creator
2 Ugin, the Ineffable
1 Karn, Scion of Urza

SB:
1 Walking Ballista
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Basilisk Collar
1 staff of domination
1 Umbral Mantle
1 Mycosynth Lattice
2 tormod's Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
1 smokestack
2 Voltaic Key
1 Chalice of the void

[bruizar]

So I was thiking if we MD new karn and new Ugin we can go more aggressive and use 4 Myr Superion as we have ugin to reduce cost to zero, metalworker and karn's animation ability to use on mana rocks. It is conveniently 5/6 to be above gurmag angler but doesn't work well with trinisphere+ cost reducer, so instead of trini, I'd recommend thorn MD.

You could also use 1 sb Urza's Incubator for Karn to reduce the cost of Myr Superion to zero.

[malfie13]

Yikes. That is indeed an Avenue that may as well be explored. I feel like bt new cards and new mulligan rules the city gates have been left ajar

[Silverflame]

Yikes. That is indeed an Avenue that may as well be explored. I feel like bt new cards and new mulligan rules the city gates have been left ajar

I believe so. I'm revisiting old ideas to try new builds, but I'm not sure what will stick. The "Myr aggro stompy" could use Traxos, TKS or batterskull instead of Emperion and greaves, increasing the chance of dropping a huge creature almost every turn.
But I'm more focused on the blue build, I feel like there is something there I'm missing. Maybe Read the Runes with Goblin Welder + other artificer (not sure if Master Transmuter or Arcum Dagsson, probably Dagsson.) I tried a build with Scroll Rack + Treasure Hunt, but it was too slow, that engine would probably be better in a Land Tax build or something, so I'm binning those.

[bruizar]

I believe so. I'm revisiting old ideas to try new builds, but I'm not sure what will stick. The "Myr aggro stompy" could use Traxos, TKS or batterskull instead of Emperion and greaves, increasing the chance of dropping a huge creature almost every turn.
But I'm more focused on the blue build, I feel like there is something there I'm missing. Maybe Read the Runes with Goblin Welder + other artificer (not sure if Master Transmuter or Arcum Dagsson, probably Dagsson.) I tried a build with Scroll Rack + Treasure Hunt, but it was too slow, that engine would probably be better in a Land Tax build or something, so I'm binning those.

I've been sitting on Arcum Dagsson for a long time. I was never able to build it properly, but being able to grab a Possessed Portal, Lattice or just combo off is incredibly brutal.

[Silverflame]

I've been sitting on Arcum Dagsson for a long time. I was never able to build it properly, but being able to grab a Possessed Portal, Lattice or just combo off is incredibly brutal.

My thoughts exactly. With wurmcoils, battlesphere and crucible you have a high chance of locking the opponent on the spot with 1 Dagsson activation for portal (props if you do it in response of a brainstorm).

[kathor]

Hallo everyone,
just tested a few games with the new Karn in a classic MUD shell with Mycosynth Lattice in the sideboard. I found it really underwhelming in the few games i had, because Karn has usually no direct impact in the game except for making a lousy blocker out of any hatepiece that is not Chalice, which would just die. To really get some value out of it, you need to have all the relevant pieces in the sideboard too, so you either move those from the mainboard into one ofs into the sideboard and reduce mainboard strength or you reshape the sideboard to have more artifact based answers and less other things. Maybe the other decks are not really representative, but against combo decks like reanimator or storm, i felt like i just didnt have the time to assemble the lock.

How are your expectations on the Karn and how would you reshape the deck to better fit him? How many will you include?

[MGB]

Hallo everyone,
just tested a few games with the new Karn in a classic MUD shell with Mycosynth Lattice in the sideboard. I found it really underwhelming in the few games i had, because Karn has usually no direct impact in the game except for making a lousy blocker out of any hatepiece that is not Chalice, which would just die. To really get some value out of it, you need to have all the relevant pieces in the sideboard too, so you either move those from the mainboard into one ofs into the sideboard and reduce mainboard strength or you reshape the sideboard to have more artifact based answers and less other things. Maybe the other decks are not really representative, but against combo decks like reanimator or storm, i felt like i just didnt have the time to assemble the lock.

How are your expectations on the Karn and how would you reshape the deck to better fit him? How many will you include?

You have to play Ensnaring Bridge in the SB to make it work properly. First time you cast him, you get Ensnaring Bridge to stop the opponent from attacking him with creatures.

If they don't have creatures in play then you can just get the Lattice or some other hate piece. Against combo decks like Reanimator or Storm you need to play other toolbox answers such as Trinisphere, Tormod's Crypt in the SB.

Karn works best when Lattice is just another option when the coast is clear.

[bruizar]

You have to play Ensnaring Bridge in the SB to make it work properly. First time you cast him, you get Ensnaring Bridge to stop the opponent from attacking him with creatures.

If they don't have creatures in play then you can just get the Lattice or some other hate piece. Against combo decks like Reanimator or Storm you need to play other toolbox answers such as Trinisphere, Tormod's Crypt in the SB.

Karn works best when Lattice is just another option when the coast is clear.

I advocated 3 Liquimetal Coatings main and 1 in the side, + zuran orb + tormod's crypt. I'd play a Lodestone Golem before Trinisphere as a wish target, since you need to capitalize on the turns you gain against storm. If you give them enough time, they will EOT Chain of Vapor and go off anyway. Probably, Karn is too slow for storm anyway and you just need to have some thorn of amethysts or 3spheres main that you can cast on the first turn, but the other match ups you can board pretty relevant and quick cards imo.

[MGB]

I advocated 3 Liquimetal Coatings main and 1 in the side, + zuran orb + tormod's crypt. I'd play a Lodestone Golem before Trinisphere as a wish target, since you need to capitalize on the turns you gain against storm. If you give them enough time, they will EOT Chain of Vapor and go off anyway. Probably, Karn is too slow for storm anyway and you just need to have some thorn of amethysts or 3spheres main that you can cast on the first turn, but the other match ups you can board pretty relevant and quick cards imo.

The difference between 3 mana and 4 mana can mean the difference between dying and winning against Storm... especially when you can get to 7 mana and Karn+Trinisphere all in one turn.

Liquimetal Coating just seems too cute to me. By itself, it does absolutely NOTHING. You can't have a dead card in your deck that often. You won't always get Karn out. At least with Mycosynth Lattice, it's never a dead card because you don't ever fetch it until you have Karn in play.

Zuran Orb doesn't seem too bad against burn but against everything else it's underwhelming?

[bruizar]

The difference between 3 mana and 4 mana can mean the difference between dying and winning against Storm... especially when you can get to 7 mana and Karn+Trinisphere all in one turn.

Liquimetal Coating just seems too cute to me. By itself, it does absolutely NOTHING. You can't have a dead card in your deck that often. You won't always get Karn out. At least with Mycosynth Lattice, it's never a dead card because you don't ever fetch it until you have Karn in play.

Zuran Orb doesn't seem too bad against burn but against everything else it's underwhelming?

Agreed. I'm not so sure about the liquimetal coating plan in a colorless build myself yet either. Right now, the support cards that least impact the rest of your deck when you run a liquimetal coating strategy are Karn, the Great Creator, Karn, Silver Golem, Abrade, Kolaghan's Command and Fiery Confluence. Then there's Gorilla Shaman and Ancient Grudge which is dead without Liquimetal Coating. I also think Zuran Orb should be solely used in the burn matchup, except for a corner case match here and there. Mox Opal might also be almost a neccesity with Liquimetal Coating to carry those red cards, and Liquimetal Coating can turn on Metalcraft for you if you don't have it yet. That's all I can think of for now.

[Airwave]

Hi there,

I tested Karn, the Great Creator in around 25 games with a side/wishboard containing 40 artifacts for testing. I'm not on a typical MUD-build, but control with three Ensnaring Bridge main.

Results:

Wishboard
Mycosynth Lattice 13
Ensnaring Bridge 11
Walking Ballista 5
Lodestone Golem 4
Phyrexian Metamorph 2
Torpor Orb 2
Coercive Portal 1
Liquimetal Coating 1
Meekstone 1
Orbs of Warding 1
Pithing Needle 1
Portcullis 1
Silent Arbiter 1
Spellskite 1
Spine of Ish Sah 1
Wurmcoil Engine 1
Crucible of Worlds 0
Nevinyrral’s Disk 0
Ratchet Bomb 0
Sorcerous Spyglass 0
Thorn of Amethyst 0
Tormod's Crypt 0
Steel Hellkite 0
Oblivion Stone 0
Mox Opal 0
Staff of Nin 0


In my opinion the card is crazy good, unanswered it's almost game immediately :smile:

[Captain Hammer]

I love Karn here. Why not a Staff of Dom in the board to tutor with it since it can stop Emrakul and also combos with Metalworker to make infinite mana and win the game.

[Airwave]

I love Karn here. Why not a Staff of Dom in the board to tutor with it since it can stop Emrakul and also combos with Metalworker to make infinite mana and win the game.

Metalworker is not in my build. With Metalworker in, I would definitely put one Staff of Domination in the sideboard! :cool:

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Metalworker is not in my build. With Metalworker in, I would definitely put one Staff of Domination in the sideboard! :cool:That seems incorrect. Why? The deck is named exactly Metalworker Ultimate Destruction -- are you using mana rocks in place or locus lands or something?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Megadeus]

This list was on the 5-0 lost for MTGO decks. I think I watched this person play and the deck was pretty sick

Creatures [3]
3 Walking Ballista
Planeswalkers [14]
3 Ugin, the Ineffable
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Karn, the Great Creator
Artifacts [18]
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Voltaic Key
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo
Lands [25]
1 City of Traitors
1 Karakas
3 Vesuva
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Blast Zone
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Thespian's Stage


1 Walking Ballista
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Warping Wail

[Airwave]

This list was on the 5-0 lost for MTGO decks. I think I watched this person play and the deck was pretty sick

Creatures [3]
3 Walking Ballista
Planeswalkers [14]
3 Ugin, the Ineffable
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Karn, the Great Creator
Artifacts [18]
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Voltaic Key
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo
Lands [25]
1 City of Traitors
1 Karakas
3 Vesuva
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Blast Zone
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Thespian's Stage


1 Walking Ballista
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Warping Wail

This is almost similar to my list :laugh:

I'm not sure if it belongs over here or in the 12-post thread, it's colorless (MUD) without eldrazi but there's no Metalworker indeed.

I'm playing three Ensnaring Bridge and two Maze of Ith main, only 2 dynamo's and 1 key.

[Von]

This list was on the 5-0 lost for MTGO decks. I think I watched this person play and the deck was pretty sick

Creatures [3]
3 Walking Ballista
Planeswalkers [14]
3 Ugin, the Ineffable
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Karn, the Great Creator
Artifacts [18]
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Voltaic Key
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo
Lands [25]
1 City of Traitors
1 Karakas
3 Vesuva
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Blast Zone
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Thespian's Stage


1 Walking Ballista
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Warping Wail


Simliar to my configuartion except I pay 3 bridges and 3 spyglass in place of key and old karns. I also have 4 tks in the board. I really think this is a new deck (mono brown control?) instead a variation of mud.

[ChrisDissent]

Playing only one City of Traitors seems bad IMO. You still want to put in play asap Chalice/Grim/Trinisphere, and with only 5 sol lands, probs are not that high.
Plus, it allows you to play Karn on turn 2 more often.
I'd swap some Karn Scion for TKS too.

I'm testing a more prison shell around Karn Creator although the list is similar, but hey, can we start another thread to not pollute this one ?

[H]

I'm testing a more prison shell around Karn Creator although the list is similar, but hey, can we start another thread to not pollute this one ?

I don't think you need a new thread really. If your deck uses Metalworker, keep in in this thread, if it doesn't, use this one, for "Stax." (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25724-Primer-Deck-Stax/page27)

[Airwave]

Playing only one City of Traitors seems bad IMO. You still want to put in play asap Chalice/Grim/Trinisphere, and with only 5 sol lands, probs are not that high.
Plus, it allows you to play Karn on turn 2 more often.
I'd swap some Karn Scion for TKS too.

I'm testing a more prison shell around Karn Creator although the list is similar, but hey, can we start another thread to not pollute this one ?

Agree on City, I switched over to Stax-topic for the "new" Karn deck.

[UnOrthodox Bird]

(Edits: Forgot Match 2 was 2-1, not 2-0. Consulted my notes and just noticed I wrote loss above my two wins.)

Hello All!

I just recently picked up the deck and wanted to say how excited I am to sling some MUD cards.

I had my first weekly legacy tonight with the deck and went 2-1!

Match 1: 0-2 4c Loam
Game 1: I had a slower hand unsure what I was up against. I kept being about a turn behind in terms of an out, but it was close as he whittled me down. I ran into a Knight of Autumn that blew me out. Not used to playing against the card.
Game 2: I kept a solid opener that can turn 1 a Ballista to kill whatever his threat may be, be it Bob or other, into a turn 2 Karn Scion of Urza. He goes Mox Diamond, Mox Diamond, Land, KotR. Facing a turn 1 4/4 that tutored for all his Wasteland and Ghost Quarters was not something I could beat. Never got past 2 mana.

Match 2: 2-1 UB Death's Shadow
Game 1: I don't remember much of this game outside of being put against the ropes around turn 4 and not being able to play around Daze if he had it, which he did.
Game 2: My opponent pulls ahead but I stabilize off the back of a Wurmcoil Engine + Karn, Scion of Urza.
Game 3: I land a nice pair of Greaves + Staff, but get discarded down to 1. I stay ahead playing 2x Lodestone Golem and riding them to victory after my Wurmcoil handles 2x 9/9 Death's Shadow.

Match 3: 2-0 C/G Post
Game 1: My opponent mulls to 4. I land a quick greaves + golem and staff. He manages to keep in the game as my lands were all post lands and his one land was a post (I play no Wasteland currently). He eventually lands an Ugin and manages to Ult it by chumping each turn with a TKS and Maze of Ith to take care of my threats with no boots. Luckily I hits only another Ugin + mana lands and 1 TKS. Our post lands each tap for 9. I manage to get Inventors' Fair to fetch a Blightsteel and get boots on him. I tap down his TKS and move to combat. He responds with Crop Rot for Dark Depths and makes a Marit Lage but I have enough mana to untap staff and tap the Marit Lage token to win.
Game 2: My opponent keeps 7, so I am happy for him. He lands turn 1 map into turn 2 map + candelabra. I manage to land a Lodestone again + Pithing Needle on Candelabra and eventually Sorcerer's Spyglass on Mirage Mirror. I land a pair of boots early on at some point + chalice on 1 and swing for 5 with golem, land another golem that turn and swing for 10 the next, then swing for the win. He was close to an out but needed to either be able to use his Candelabra or me to not have boots + chalice.

Overall super happy I managed to play okay-ish for my first time not goldfishing. Lodestone Golem was an all-star. Truly rode him to victory in 3 of my 4 game wins!

My List:
MAINDECK (61)
Land (24)

4x Ancient Tomb
1x Buried Ruin
3x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
2x Darksteel Citadel
4x Glimmerpost
2x Inventors' Fair
1x Thespian's Stage
3x Vesuva

Planeswalker (6)

2x Karn, Scion of Urza
2x Karn, the Great Creator
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Artifact (15)

4x Chalice of the Void
3x Grim Monolith
2x Lightning Greaves
2x Mirage Mirror
2x Sphere of Resistance
1x Staff of Domination
1x Voltaic Key

Creature (16)

1x Blightsteel Colossus
3x Kuldotha Forgemaster
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Metalworker
1x Platinum Emperion
1x Walking Ballista
2x Wurmcoil Engine

SIDEBOARD (15)

Sideboard (15)

1x Batterskull
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Sphere of Resistance
1x Spine of Ish Sah
1x Staff of Domination
1x Steel Hellkite
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Trinisphere
1x Walking Ballista

[forestfold]

Agree on City, I switched over to Stax-topic for the "new" Karn deck.

This was an argument ~40-50 pages back, the prison shell minus metalworker with mostly planeswalkers was dubbed Legends MUD because of the deck similiarities. I believe the result was a new thread somewhere, but i am not motivated enough to look for it.

I played good ole' (not) reliable at GP Niagara to a disappointing finish, partially because I am extremely rusty and partially because the meta was not as kind as I suspected it to be. I am trying to find the time to do a tournament report, but yard work and my kid being sick have severely cut into my free time. I'll try to get it up in the next month or so.

[GradStudent]

Mud version with goblin welder still a thing?

[malfie13]

Mud version with goblin welder still a thing?

I was working on that until I saw the new additions from WAR. Now I'm working on that, instead

[malfie13]

So. I'm going to take the dive for now. This is my current build of the colorless superfriends deck that's been taking the net by storm. I cant promise this will be what I play at richmond... but I also cannot confirm or deny that I will not. This may be the last post I make about my own builds until after the event....

Deck: Legacy Colorless Superfriends 5-16-19.dec

Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:3
3 Walking Ballista

Spells:33
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Thran Dynamo
3 Ugin, the Ineffable
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:25
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Blast Zone
1 Buried Ruin
1 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
1 Crystal Vein
4 Glimmerpost
2 Thespian's Stage
3 Vesuva
2 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
1 Walking Ballista
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Mycosynth Lattice

[Airwave]

So. I'm going to take the dive for now. This is my current build of the colorless superfriends deck that's been taking the net by storm. I cant promise this will be what I play at richmond... but I also cannot confirm or deny that I will not. This may be the last post I make about my own builds until after the event....

Deck: Legacy Colorless Superfriends 5-16-19.dec

Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:3
3 Walking Ballista

Spells:33
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Thran Dynamo
3 Ugin, the Ineffable
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:25
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Blast Zone
1 Buried Ruin
1 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
1 Crystal Vein
4 Glimmerpost
2 Thespian's Stage
3 Vesuva
2 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
1 Walking Ballista
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Mycosynth Lattice

Good luck with the dive, I'll meet you under water :tongue: So far I feel the deck is great. Searching silver bullets from the sideboard is nice!

Why would play a full set of dynamo's? If you're already at 4 mana to cast it there are only the ugin's and the ballista's that benefit from it really. I like the card, really do, but sometimes it almost feels like a "win-more" card for me in this setting. You'll need it more for the big Eldrazi's of course.

[malfie13]

Why play a full set of dynamo's? If you're already at 4 mana to cast it there are only the ugin's and the ballista's that benefit from it really. I like the card, really do, but sometimes it almost feels like a "win-more" card for me in this setting. You'll need it more for the big Eldrazi's of course.

I'm on the fense about 4 actually. Good eye. I feel like the biggest thing we need is absolutely the mid levels of big mana by t3. Past that, we're not on the same plan as "classic" metalworker mud, needing immediate obscene mana. Also thorn actually hurts this deck in ways that it doesnt really affect MUD proper. I'm on the real fense between this and something like a 4 thorn mud list that can combat this if necessary. I dont really feel like dying to a colorless mirror. On the other hand I can see the weaknesses of the deck pretty clearly and may be able to structure a colorless metalworker deck to compensate.

[Silverflame]

I tested the 15 planeswalker build and it felt soft to counters since we don't have many ways to draw or cheat stuff into play. Maybe defense grid can help.

[malfie13]

I tested the 15 planeswalker build and it felt soft to counters since we don't have many ways to draw or cheat stuff into play. Maybe defense grid can help.

I couldnt disagree more. I've been testing and almost every Walker draws cards, without using the word draw, so it even gets around narset. I played a local, and went 3-1. If the matches I played vs grixis and miracles were real, it would have been 6-1. It's a real deck. I dunno if it's what I'd take to a big comp event. I also dont know that I wouldnt.

[malfie13]

The one loss was to infect, so there that. The match still sucks.

[ChrisDissent]

Spells:33
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Thran Dynamo
3 Ugin, the Ineffable
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:25
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Blast Zone
1 Buried Ruin
1 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
1 Crystal Vein
4 Glimmerpost
2 Thespian's Stage
3 Vesuva
2 Wasteland


Hi Malfie13,
question : why do you pack only 1 City while running 4 Chalice and Grim/Trinisphere ?
I get that losing lands is not ideal while we try to ramp, but turn 1 plays are so good we can't offer the chance for the opponent to Daze/Pierce it, IMO.
Plus the fact that 8 sol lands increase your turn 2 Karn probabilities.

[malfie13]

There are really only so many land slots. I'm also running a vein, so its functionally 2 cities. It's really, really important to hit a curve in this deck. It doesnt rely on metalworker ramp, so its obviously slightly less absurd than traditional mud. Also the curve is lower, in general, even counting ugin and newlamog

[Airwave]

There are really only so many land slots. I'm also running a vein, so its functionally 2 cities. It's really, really important to hit a curve in this deck. It doesnt rely on metalworker ramp, so its obviously slightly less absurd than traditional mud. Also the curve is lower, in general, even counting ugin and newlamog

I'm on full set cities and veins now, I want to hit 4 mana as soon as possible :cool:

Isn't the second city always better than the first vein btw?

I like the new "welder", combines greatly with the old one. Searching for Sundering Titan, weld it in, thank you very much :smile:

[malfie13]

I'm on full set cities and veins now, I want to hit 4 mana as soon as possible :cool:

Isn't the second city always better than the first vein btw?


Agreed. 4 mana is the most mportant amount. Hwr, vein doesnt HAVE to be scrapped when you upgrade lands. Obv it will often be, but not always. I'm considering going up a city tho. Dunno. Still a work in progress

[malfie13]

Ok, so I've gone 5.0 and 4.0 in succession over the past two legacy events I've played. I'm relatively happy with the deck as is. I've even won all the expo matches I've played with it. It's gross. I'm probably going to run it at scg con. Wish me luck, I intend to claim glory. It wont be for lack of trying if I don't. I hope that they put my ass on camera, but I doubt it. I think it's the same time as the modern event .

[TLK]

Ok, so I've gone 5.0 and 4.0 in succession over the past two legacy events I've played. I'm relatively happy with the deck as is. I've even won all the expo matches I've played with it. It's gross. I'm probably going to run it at scg con. Wish me luck, I intend to claim glory. It wont be for lack of trying if I don't. I hope that they put my ass on camera, but I doubt it. I think it's the same time as the modern event .

Mind sharing your list? If not publicly, maybe via PM?

[Airwave]

Ok, so I've gone 5.0 and 4.0 in succession over the past two legacy events I've played. I'm relatively happy with the deck as is. I've even won all the expo matches I've played with it. It's gross. I'm probably going to run it at scg con. Wish me luck, I intend to claim glory. It wont be for lack of trying if I don't. I hope that they put my ass on camera, but I doubt it. I think it's the same time as the modern event .

Good luck!! :smile:

[malfie13]

Mind sharing your list? If not publicly, maybe via PM?

Definitely...after the event. Either way I'll share my experiences, good or bad. I'm pretty zoned in tho. I'm hopeful for this and will do my best!