[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Medea_]

By popular demand, I'm going to stream with Dire Fleet Daredevil tonight (https://www.twitch.tv/deathandtaxesftw). I'm planning on starting at 7:00 EST. If you have any thoughts on what the list should look like based on your testing, feel free to share them here.

Edit: List will look something like this:

Lands
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
3 Plains
3 Plateau
3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
2 Flooded Strand
1 Windsweapt Heath
Creatures
3 Flickerwisp
4 Mother of Runes
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Dire Fleet Daredevil
1 Palace Jailer
Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Containment Priest
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Orzhov Pontiff

[redtwister]

Brian Mears in Philly rockin WW DnT in Round 7. Took game 1 versus Lands.

[Moctzal]

Brian Mears in Philly rockin WW DnT in Round 7. Took game 1 versus Lands.

He looked pretty good doing it, and played well.

I do think he should have gotten out of game 2 faster than he did. He was in fairly good shape (though not guaranteed) to get game 3 if it didn't go to time.

[KærvekTheMerciless]

Target your Dread of Night, hold priority, make your Baleful Strix a White creature. :PThis. I'm in tears laughing at the sheer awesome level being displayed by this gambit.

Sent from my SM-N915V using Tapatalk

[Medea_]

Hey folks,

My regularly scheduled stream times are going to be Monday and Wednesdays at ~7:00 PM Eastern time. This week I'll be playing the Dire Fleet Daredevil list again. I'll post when I stream outside of those scheduled times. Does anyone want me to post when I go live on Mondays and Wednesdays as well as a reminder?

xoxoxox -Phil

[geneyquakes]

He looked pretty good doing it, and played well.

I do think he should have gotten out of game 2 faster than he did. He was in fairly good shape (though not guaranteed) to get game 3 if it didn't go to time.

Agree that he generally played well, but I was practically screaming at my computer telling him to scoop that game two. It was fine to play through until the Relic Warder and Thalia died, but once they bit it and both Punishing Fire and Loam were running at full speed he was at effectively zero percent to win the game. Game three or in untimed rounds I am fine playing that out (look for mistakes, see which sideboard cards get Loamed over, etc.), but he would have needed a hand of 3 or 4 Surgicals, then stacked his deck after that to even have a chance. It also got them into some weird spots where the teammates were having a debate about how to pay for Tabernacle and how to use Port using time that they just didn't have room to play around with. I think he started pretty well in game three, and with just a little bit of extra breathing room or a few extra turns could have squeaked out a win. If that game starts with 11 minutes on the clock instead of 7 it is completely different.

[ChrisCunningham]

Hey folks,

My regularly scheduled stream times are going to be Monday and Wednesdays at ~7:00 PM Eastern time. This week I'll be playing the Dire Fleet Daredevil list again. I'll post when I stream outside of those scheduled times. Does anyone want me to post when I go live on Mondays and Wednesdays as well as a reminder?

xoxoxox -Phil

Myself (and maybe many people) get The Source notices in a weekly or daily digest, so the notices generally appear after they are relevant. You are starting to notify me a little more than I would like since I am getting the notifications in so many places, but probably there are not so many people in the world subscribed to every single D&T infostream. Anyway, posting this kind of thing to Twitter or Facebook or Discord seems to make more sense to me than posting here. Just my 2 cents.

[Hopo]

Agree that he generally played well, but I was practically screaming at my computer telling him to scoop that game two. It was fine to play through until the Relic Warder and Thalia died, but once they bit it and both Punishing Fire and Loam were running at full speed he was at effectively zero percent to win the game.

Sounds like he was just one Sanctum Prelate short of handling it.

[Tylert]

Myself (and maybe many people) get The Source notices in a weekly or daily digest, so the notices generally appear after they are relevant. You are starting to notify me a little more than I would like since I am getting the notifications in so many places, but probably there are not so many people in the world subscribed to every single D&T infostream. Anyway, posting this kind of thing to Twitter or Facebook or Discord seems to make more sense to me than posting here. Just my 2 cents.

Twitch notices work pretty well.
If you want to know when medea is streaming, you have to follow his channel.

[redtwister]

Not sure if anyone noted this, but Dire Fleet Daredevil works even if you have Grafdigger's Cage in play. Exiles the spell from the graveyard, then allows us to cast it.

Not sure if that matters for us, since Rest in Peace is still the best choice, but thought I would point that out.

[geneyquakes]

Sounds like he was just one Sanctum Prelate short of handling it.

I might be underrating how good Prelate would have been on that board, but if I'm not mistaken he only had two lands anyway and no vial, and we he was facing down at least one Maze of Ith. Also Long had Barbarian Ring in the deck and if at any time that pops up it becomes actual zero percent. Another issue is that while Long wasn't slowplaying by any means, he was taking very long turns. He had an exploration, Loam, stages, and was being very careful to protect his Punishing Fires. Lands in that spot is a massive favorite to win, and will also very likely eat up huge portions of the clock. DnT in that spot is commited to just jamming any basic Plains, Recruiter, Vial, or Prelate into play and otherwise doing absolutely nothing, while Lands is going to take 30-40 seconds a turn almost by default.

I don't know his exact sideboard, or what his outs were, and honestly it is possible he wasn't even really looking at the clock. My gut reaction, especially with the clock ticking down on the screen right in front of me and a full look at his opponents, was that he just wasn't going to win and using 4 extra minutes to lose just makes G3 that much harder. I could very well be wrong but staring at that clock ticking down just bugged me out for some reason.

[Medea_]

I might be underrating how good Prelate would have been on that board, but if I'm not mistaken he only had two lands anyway and no vial, and we he was facing down at least one Maze of Ith. Also Long had Barbarian Ring in the deck and if at any time that pops up it becomes actual zero percent. Another issue is that while Long wasn't slowplaying by any means, he was taking very long turns. He had an exploration, Loam, stages, and was being very careful to protect his Punishing Fires. Lands in that spot is a massive favorite to win, and will also very likely eat up huge portions of the clock. DnT in that spot is commited to just jamming any basic Plains, Recruiter, Vial, or Prelate into play and otherwise doing absolutely nothing, while Lands is going to take 30-40 seconds a turn almost by default.

I don't know his exact sideboard, or what his outs were, and honestly it is possible he wasn't even really looking at the clock. My gut reaction, especially with the clock ticking down on the screen right in front of me and a full look at his opponents, was that he just wasn't going to win and using 4 extra minutes to lose just makes G3 that much harder. I could very well be wrong but staring at that clock ticking down just bugged me out for some reason.

When you are in a feature match, you usually have no view of the clock. It's a little frustrating. The players probably had no idea how far into the round they were.

[Kaesejay]

Hello fellow Death and Taxes enthusiast!

I have a problem i hope you could help me solve. This is my current List. Im splashing Magus of the Moon and Pontiff with 4 Caverns and Vials (Yes i know the numbers, odds etc of doing so; Thx Thrabenuniversity / Medea ) and i quite like the concept. You gain extra point in Matchups where Cavern is awesome, loose some because it does not cast Swords/ Gideon, but get some free wins against Bug/Czech Pile decks/ TNN etc. But thats not why im here...

My list:

4 Aether Vial
4 Mother of Runes
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker

4 Flickerwisp
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Magus of the Moon / Pontiff

1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
8 Plains

Sideboard:

2 Path to Exile
1 Councils Judgement
2 Orzhov Pontiff / Magus of the Moon
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Questions:

1. What configuration of Pontiffs / Magus would you choose and why. 2 Magus Main, 2 Pontiff Sideboard? 1+1 Main and 1+1 Side ? Only 1 Pontiff ? Let me hear your thoughts

2. I wanna squeeze in a Leonin Relic Warden to improve the (nowadays not so good) Sneak & Show Matchup (Omniscience :frown: ). Thoughts and if you aggree... which card to cut?

3. How do you fight the "new" Miracles ( Search for Azcanta Version ) ? At the moment im relying on Councils, Sword of War and Peace and Gideons... Any card im missing out of my board? Is it time to switch to Cataclysms again instead of Gideons ?

Thank you for reading and or responding! If you have any questions yourself regarding my list feel free to ask. Im no professional but im grinding this deck since 3 years :wink:

[Medea_]

1. Magus of the Moon is stupid good. He steal so many games. I'd run two main.
2. If you want to fit in Relic-Warder, I'd drop CJ. They cover many of the same things.
3. In addition to what you started, Pia and Kiran Nalaar is really good at grinding people out. Gideon and Cataclysm are about the same. Gideon is a bit better when you are ahead or at parity. Cataclysm is better when you are behind.

[Moctzal]

I'll chip in that if I was running a splash build without Council's Judgment, I'd prefer Cataclysm to Gideon because it deals with Planeswalkers.

[Kaesejay]

Thx Medea and Moctzal for your input!
I will stick with 2 Magi Main and Gideon then.
And i will test the CJ - Leonin swap. I already swapped the second CJ for a Pontiff since he also gets rid of TNN and i always felt that was one of the main reasons to play CJ at all.

If anyone else has some general critical thoughts about my list please feel free to share :smile:

[AsmodeusDM]

I got another 5-0 with a Daredevil list last night. I'm 100% sold on the card at this point. I think cutting a SfM for the Daredevil is a reasonable choice, they play similar roles.

Hey everyone; just wanted to briefly chime in.. I ran Daredevil at SCG Dallas a week ago (my team got 20th place) and I went 9-4 (and 2 matches didn't get to finish due to my teammates)

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=118322

Daredevil was great all day and I will be playing 2 going forward.

#1 the gotcha moments are real; until people figure it out of course. My favorite moment:

I had Batterskull, thalia, Flicker, and Mom in play vs. Esper deathblade opponent who had his own skull in play. I attacked with my skull and flickerwisp; he made his block and then cast Zealous Persecution. I vialed in Daredevil and Dazed his own ZP.

#2 Having another 2-drop first striker was very relevant; just hold equipment so well.

#3 being a RED creature came up a lot; lots of dreads of night.

#4 I did end up boarding out a SFM in many games because it felt like mystic and daredevil overlapped a lot of the times.

#5 I mainly bolted and brainstormed. I would have like another recruiter just to increase my capability to "perfect brainstorm." The brainstorm where I drew a recruiter and was able to put back two redundant thalias; then recruiter to find a relevant threat and shuffle away the 2 extra thalia's felt so busted :D

#6 I played 3 plains. I really would have liked 1 more.

[AsmodeusDM]

Also wanted to add Cataclysm was busted for me ALL DAY. I just ended the game so many times with that one card one time nabbing 2 Lily's and 4 creatures in one go. A few Jace's; even an Ugin (vs. 12 post).

[Medea_]

I had Batterskull, thalia, Flicker, and Mom in play vs. Esper deathblade opponent who had his own skull in play. I attacked with my skull and flickerwisp; he made his block and then cast Zealous Persecution. I vialed in Daredevil and Dazed his own ZP.


Mmmmm, I like it when you talk dirty.

Seriously though, DFD opens up a ton of really weird lines. I had a game on stream last night where I got to Fatal Push and Decay two threats out of Delver and buy a ton of time. That's some great value and flexibility. I'm going to keep testing the card. There's some tension with other parts of the deck (especially RiP and Thalia), but I am officially intrigued. I'm not 100% convinced it is better than other options, but I'm sure I want to play it for another week or two to gather more data. My results have been 3-2 every time in 3 or 4 leagues now (which is sub par for me), but the card itself has been fine. If I could stop getting paired against Elves...

[Moctzal]

If I could stop getting paired against Elves...

We dead.

[heyoka]

to Kaesejay question ;

i run more or less same config . 4 cavern 1 pontif main / 1 magus main .. and one each in SB... having 2 reqruiters is enough for me to justify the one/one split game for one .... as stellar as they can be you have still also games where they are underwhelming.

one thing however i did change after with a lot of initial reluctancy was removing 1 rishadan port for an extra white source .. because the need and constraint on White is just so preassuring... even more so with 4 flickerwisps and gideon / cataslism aspirations.. its not the blasphemy i thought it initially to be...

and one less port, is one less sub optimal port activation to worry about ... still think port is the most skill intensive card by far in the deck, with lots of room for error's to be made

greerts

[piroko139]

PleasantKenobi recently did a runthrough (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgLG5X8mZpA&t=0s) of RW Taxes with Daredevil full of usual memes and dry British humor. It's an interesting list with more 3 drops than I'm really comfortable playing and only 1 Cavern.



3 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Dire Fleet Daredevil
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar

4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
4 Rishadan Ports
4 Wasteland
3 Plateau
3 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath

SB:
2 Path to Exile
1 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Honor the Pure
2 Rest in Peace
2 Council's Judgment
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Palace Jailer
1 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Magus of the Moon

In case you're at work or something, the results of the league worked out like this:
0-2 Grixis Delver
2-0 Spanish Inquisition?
2-1 BR Reanimator
0-2 Grixis Delver
?-2 Deadguy Ale?

It felt like he was pretty out of practice and kept risky hands. It was still entertaining, and I think his variant is at least somewhat worth discussing. A lot more WW cards despite the red splash, and I'm feel pretty good about his decision to have a third Magus in the board.

[Moctzal]

It seemed like a pile of randomly thrown together cards poorly piloted.

That video's largely for entertainment purposes. Not much to be learned there.

[CptHaddock]

It seemed like a pile of randomly thrown together cards poorly piloted.

That video's largely for entertainment purposes. Not much to be learned there.

Haha yeah who would run mother of runes, thalia guardian of thraben, wastelands, ports, sfm, etc in D&T anyways? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[geneyquakes]

New favorite Dire Fleet Daredevil story.

Played against Goblins with Pyrokinesis. Play DFD, use that plus exile an excess red card from my hand and Plague Wind him.

[Moctzal]

Haha yeah who would run mother of runes, thalia guardian of thraben, wastelands, ports, sfm, etc in D&T anyways? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

It's the varied card choices made that differ from other RW lists that don't look very reasonable. Cutting a Mother of Runes, running 4 Flickerwisp, some of the sideboard decisions, etc. It doesn't look very reasonable, and there's no explanation given. So it appears to be a set of whimsical choices made by someone who's not concerned with selecting cards with a reasonable process in mind. It's just someone making a video for entertainment purposes, with a new hotness variant of a deck the creator likes. That's fine, but I don't think it merits any serious discussion here.

[redtwister]

So the obviously stupid question is, does Dire Fleet Daredevil make it worth running Grafdigger's Cage instead of Rest in Peace?

Clearly, RiP is just solid against DRS and Goyf in ways that Cage is not, but Cage is very useful versus Elves, stops Snapcaster Mage, is better as a turn 1 play against Reanimator and good against Dredge, decent against ANT (not TES, if I remember correctly), etc.

Are you all siding in RiP enough against the DRS and Goyf decks to make it worth it?

Since so many people run a 1-of Surgical Extraction/Faerie Macabre alongside RiP, does it change how we think about graveyard hate? Or is the nonbo simply not that much of a problem?

I'm guessing I am missing some giant hole in my thinking.

[Medea_]

@piroko139

I think the list is sub-optimal. The pilot has a post going on Reddit on /r/mtglegacy if you want to follow up there.

@Redtwister

Unsure on how I feel about the RiP/DFD situation. I'm actively working on this.

[Moctzal]

@piroko139

I think the list is sub-optimal. The pilot has a post going on Reddit on /r/mtglegacy if you want to follow up there.

@Redtwister

Unsure on how I feel about the RiP/DFD situation. I'm actively working on this.

I know in modern when I play Snapcaster decks, I like having something like a single RIP for the really heavy GY decks like Dredge or Living End, and then 1-2 Relic of Progenitus against moderate GY decks (Grixis Shadow) to keep my own cards in my own GY for Snapcaster Mage.

I can see some merit in considering a spread of GY hate, like 1 RIP, 1 Relic of Progenitus, 1 Grafdigger's Cage, 1 Surgical Extraction, 1 Containment Priest and then bring in the ones that are good in each given matchup.

Cage also already has some other upsides (1 mana hate is a little faster vs Reanimator and ANT, it hoses Green Sun's Zenith, and give you some diversity if you have multiple hate pieces in play vs cards like Reverent Silence and Echoing Truth).

So it depends on how the things lost from multiple copies of RIP compare to the upside on DFD (I think it'll take some times and matchup analysis to figure out if it's worthwhile to slide the GY hate configuration in the deck around).

[Enesta]

My LGS had two of these decks appearing out of the blue.. couldnt find any answers to their mana acceleration, ballistas and steel overseer pumping them up..
Any advice on how to take on this matchup with mono W?

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18145&d=312501&f=LE

[geneyquakes]

My LGS had two of these decks appearing out of the blue.. couldnt find any answers to their mana acceleration, ballistas and steel overseer pumping them up..
Any advice on how to take on this matchup?

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18145&d=312501&f=LE

Yikes. There's a lot going on here.　　

Some aspects of this deck are absolute nightmares to play against, but luckily their Chalice/Thorn plan matters way less against us than against blue decks.

Random Thoughts:

Phyrexian Revoker is probably your best card, and if you are down to 2 like a lot of people (including me) then that will hurt. If there is a lot of this deck running around you will want to pump those numbers up. I think you almost have to name Walking Balista with the first copy, despite the fact that Steel Overseer is a very juicy name, as are Mox Opal and Ravager. Balista will come down and merc the Revoker anyway so I would err on the side of just preemptively turning him off. It is their best card in the matchup by a lot.

Make sure to get good value off of Flickerwisp. It will likely do a lot of dying to Balistas and Thopter Tokens, but the blink ability kills Hangerbacks and Chalice. Be sure to keep in mind that resetting a Chalice to 0 is actively excellent, because they are playing 7 zero mana mana rocks.

Your Swords to Plowshares end up very taxed. Being able to bring in some Paths and Judgments from the side will help a lot. I think you have to prioritize Steel Overseer because he gets very out of hand, but there are multiple threats that demand answers. Against Modern Affinity I am fine throwing Fatal Pushes at Vault Skirge on turn one, but against this deck I think you really need to wait to go after a more heavy hitter.

Mother of Runes is hot, hot garbage and is probably the first card you take out, but don't forget that Vault Skirge is black and will often be their only flyer. Might be able to sneak in with a Flickerwisp for Jitte counters.

Thalia is better than normal in a matchup like this because of their mana artifacts and first strike, but still fairly sketchy. Weak to Karakas hurts as well. ]

If they get their best draw against you it will be tough to beat, but can fight well on a few angles. Port and Wasteland are very good, and if you can point your Plows, Revokers, and Flickerwisps in the right directions then you can fight pretty well.

Cards you may want to look at for slots if this is a matchup you see a lot:
Serra Avenger: evasion and 3 toughness
Thalia, Heretic Cathar: slowing down their mana is the big plus. helps you make more aggressive moves and connect with equipment, and is a big first-striker
Eldrazi Displacer: invalidates big portions of their deck.

[DarthVicious]

My LGS had two of these decks appearing out of the blue.. couldnt find any answers to their mana acceleration, ballistas and steel overseer pumping them up..
Any advice on how to take on this matchup with mono W?

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18145&d=312501&f=LE

Kataki, War's Wage is a card I had a feeling was going to become good again.

[Medea_]

@enesta

I wouldn't worry about this matchup too much. The deck seems very clunky (and is also a marginal percentage of the metagame). Some of their draws are beyond bonkers, but often enough, disrupting one key piece of their hand is enough to get a win. I fear walking Ballista out of that deck (and to a lesser extent Steel Overseer), but most of the other cards can be dealt with easily enough given our equipment suite and superior end game.

Mengucci ran through a league with the deck and there are a couple of videos floating around on Reddit about the deck as well if you are looking to see the deck in action a bit more.

[ChrisCunningham]

Just a heads up that I ran into a Miracles player who had a Null Rod in their sideboard in last night's leagues. I was not expecting that, and it was pretty devastating.

I also like the meme value of "if our artifact gets banned then no one gets to activate their artifacts."

[WashableWater1]

Been playing around with Red/White Taxes a whole bunch, and I've been trying to figure which build I like best. I've made a couple of earlyish observations and wanted to see if anyone else had come to similar conclusions

Orzhov Pontiff and Councils Judgement sort of share sideboard space, in being answers to True-Name Nemesis. When I was running them together, I found them coming in as a group far more than needing one or the other.

Running Pontiff without a Scrubland can be quite awkward. It ups your black sources from 3+4 Vials to 8 or 9+4 vials.

The manabase seems to be pretty figured out, but 3 port 5 fetch vs 4 port 4 fetch seems to be a topic for debate. I've found the mana to be a fair amount worse than in mono-white. What are the arguments for both sides?

Everyone seems to be cutting the fourth Flickerwisp. Is it insane to run it in one of my flex slots? I'm trying 1 Prelate main right now in that spot.

Sideboarding against control, there are a lot of different ways you approach the different control archetypes. Running the 3rd path seems good, but its definitely cut down on the number of slots that I can dedicate to control hate. Right now I'm on 1 Recruiter, 1 Cataclysm and 1 SoLaS. The Cataclysm slot I'm a little unsure if its good or worth running without Flagstones, and as a 1 of I don't get a huge amount of casts off. Whats everyones opinion on how to sideboard here? I've found Mirran Crusader, while still solid, to be more and more lackluster as more Pile players are running ways to deal with him. He went from the maindeck, to the sideboard, to cut altogether in my build.

Dire-Fleet Daredevil certainly brings some tension to the deck, but its been mostly a pretty solid card.

[Kaesejay]

to Kaesejay question ;

i run more or less same config . 4 cavern 1 pontif main / 1 magus main .. and one each in SB... having 2 reqruiters is enough for me to justify the one/one split game for one .... as stellar as they can be you have still also games where they are underwhelming.

one thing however i did change after with a lot of initial reluctancy was removing 1 rishadan port for an extra white source .. because the need and constraint on White is just so preassuring... even more so with 4 flickerwisps and gideon / cataslism aspirations.. its not the blasphemy i thought it initially to be...

and one less port, is one less sub optimal port activation to worry about ... still think port is the most skill intensive card by far in the deck, with lots of room for error's to be made

greerts


yea ive been doin the same 1+1 split but im testing if 2 magus main is better atm (2 pontiffs in side then obv )
concerning the port vs plains problem: yea i have noticed the same. i have tried solving this by playing only 3 flickerwisp + another human in earlier versions. but this doesnt help with casting CJ and Gideon. ill give it a shot. but i really like my ports ;)

thanks for your answer !

[Medea_]

So if you didn't watch my stream last night, you need to watch a minute or so of this. (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/226748396?t=03h08m00s) Probably one of the more memorable moments of my stream so far.

[redtwister]

@Medea_
That. Was. Sweet.

Are you back on Resto???

[Medea_]

@redtwister

I 5-0'd with one in my sb. (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2018-02-08)

[redtwister]

@redtwister

I 5-0'd with one in my sb. (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2018-02-08)

How impactful was Resto (obviously, a small sample size)?

[Medea_]

How impactful was Resto (obviously, a small sample size)?

Resto is fine. It's been good pretty much every time I have drawn it.

[mykatdied]

Resto is fine. It's been good pretty much every time I have drawn it.

Glad I was able to talk you into the Resto :)

[FFreak]

So now I want to share a nice story from last FNM :)

I was on with Wr build and it was preboard against mono red:

He won dice and got tunr 1 blood moon ... so my fetch and rest was kinda red.

Got vial out, pass.

Goes on for a while , I got my first plain after vial on 3 . flickering moon and fetch

After getting a bit on board (plan was getting lethal and flickering bridge) but then 2 fiery confluecne . hitting board and my vial.

Only geft with a mother equip sword and batterskull with token.

Top decking Daredevil ... snapping fiery back to get away the bridge and lethal :P

(Only got 2 round left against 2 chandras)

:) Was the only moment I was realy happy to have dardevil , but to be honest he can be awsome but also can be not so ...


Othertime he won me a game because he got firststrike against eldrazi preboard.

[Copperhead]

Resto is fine. It's been good pretty much every time I have drawn it.

After watching Medea's last two streams (Thanks so much for recording those, Medea!!), I'm testing WR Taxes and I'm torn on the flex slots. Where he is running Wingmare, I have a soft spot for Mirran Crusader -- sometimes I just like to turn them creatures sideways. I'm also testing out the Resto Angel in the other 4-slot. My list currently looks like:

3 Flickerwisp
4 Mother of Runes
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Restoration Angel

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Rest in Peace

3 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
3 Plains
3 Plateau
3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Path to Exile
3 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Cataclysm


Questions: If I'm not running two fliers in the Crusader slots, would I rather have Flickerwisp #4 than one of the Crusaders? Especially considering I'm running Resto Angel. Or do I really want the Wingmares? I haven't historically been a Wingmare person even though I know some people swear by them. I miss all of the fliers in the old days of 4 Wisp, 3 Avenger, 2 Mindcensor Mono-W builds when it seemed like 9 fliers was a minimum.

Or maybe do a 1 Crusader, 1 Wingmare split?

[Medea_]

@copperhead

I think it's important to have something in the maindeck to hate on combo. I'm currently opting for Wingmare over Prelate. Wingmare is better in multiples and solves the deck's issues of being a little flier-light. It's also only a single white vs the WW of other options like Wisp #4.

[cheerios]

hey guys!

Would you keep or add Sanctum Prelate against Grixis Delver?

[ChrisCunningham]

Copperhead, this post is not a criticism of your decklist specifically, but your list is a great jumping off point for a specific issue I've seen a lot in high-level magic deckbuilding.


3 Flickerwisp

3 Karakas
3 Plains
3 Plateau
2 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
2 Cataclysm



I get that the mana is bad, so people are cutting a Flickerwisp. I disagree, but I get it.

But the mana is even worse for Cataclysm. We have stressed our manabase so much that we don't even feel confident in a 1WW creature that is helped out by Vial.

The thing that's truly dangerous here is we aren't going to draw these 1WW and 2WW sideboard cards often enough for us to "feel" the percentages. We won't see these cards in our hand often enough to groan when they fail more than they should. So we are more susceptible to anti-scientific thought on this issue. Well-meaning people will say things like

"I've never had a problem casting them (implied: I do not have enough data to make a conclusion, so this choice is a matter of opinion.)"
"I don't need the WW spells on curve anyway (implied: the goalposts of 'castable' can always be moved to make my decision defensible)"
"You have to run hot to win a tournament anyway (implied: there is randomness in magic, so we should not think critically about any choices)"
These same types of anti-logic could be used the same way for Flickerwisp, but we aren't so susceptible to antilogic with Flickerwisp because we have all felt the misery of having uncastable Flickerwisps in our hand multiple times. So if someone says "I haven't had a problem..." or "I don't need it on 3 anyway..." we can instinctively go "OK but math says you are wrong" and we also critically have the bad feelings to back up our position.

So I guess I'm saying that if one of the reasons we are down on Flickerwisp is because of the mana, then we should definitely be at least as down on noncreature spells that are even worse for the mana, and we need to be careful that we aren't using sneaky mind tricks on ourselves. We don't have time to collect enough emotional data to get a bad feeling about sideboard WW spells, so we should be more critical of our reasons to include them.

[Mad Mat]

hey guys!

Would you keep or add Sanctum Prelate against Grixis Delver?
Prelate is devastatingly good against delver. Takes this list for example: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18363&d=314016&f=LE

Post side, she still neuters a third of the cards in their deck. Huang's list in particular has no good way of dealing with her once she has resolved. Some people may play answers in the side like Kolaghan's Command, Grim Lavamancer, Abrade or Fire Covenant, but that's still only a select few cards that might answer her while all of their cantrips are shut down. And it's an extra reason to bring in another prelate if you have it.

The main downside is that she also keeps you from casting your best removal spells, so you might be blown out by delver or angler aggro. But our flyers are almost guaranteed to trade with their delvers if their removal spells are shut down, or better if we have mom. Our deck is stocked with chump blockers for angler, including mirran crusader, and the disruption of prelate reduces the efficiency of delve considerably because their cantrips are truly stuck in hand. They're also not as likely to find their artifact removal without their cantrips, making the odds of our (often) insta-win equipment connecting better

Prelate seems more sketchy if you run 3 paths in the side, but I think that's more a weakness of this removal plan than of prelate herself. They shine against delver and lands, but they're much more awkward to use against decks like ur delver, stompy (eldrazi, steel, merfolk), the mirror, reanimator, depths or infect.

[Medea_]

I board out Prelate vs Delver decks.

Regarding Cataclysm: I think the "you don't want to cast it on curve argument" is a good one for Cataclysm in particular, though a weak argument more generally. Against most of the decks where I want Cataclysm, I am wanting to cast it *very* late. Realistically I probably mean turn 8 or 10. Against decks like Miracles and Czech pile, you try to win the game via fair means, and once that plan fails and they've made a bunch of land drops or dropped a Jace, it's time to Cataclysm. At that point, getting non-creature WW is totally reasonable.

[Medea_]

Guest tournament report! (http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1541)

[WashableWater1]

Prelate vs Delver is slower as molasses. By the time it reaches play, it can very often be too late for it to have any impact. Its also a horrific topdeck.

RW Taxes runs the same number of white sources as monowhite Taxes. Cataclysm is not any less castable than it normally is. With a Magus in play, sure its harder. But if you have Magus in post board, and he's in play, you probably aren't looking to Cataclysm.

[itsmrjack]

Hi Taxes crew. I’m pretty fresh regards posting my own content but have been following this thread and playing Taxes for a couple of years on/off (although I’ve been on/off the game as a whole since Ice Age).

So I’ve been mucking around with the Wr version, playing a bunch on Xmage with it and a number of side events at GP London, but I came to feel that it was very often just too slow or a little bit toothless (P&K finishes excepted). I even ended up going to 2 MD Crusader to improved results, but two unsatisfactory things for me were 1. while he is undoubtedly amazing a lot of the time, Magus often didn’t quite do enough (many more people playing with basics, 3rd/4th turn being too late or he simply got Bolted/Punished) and 2. there were just too many very mana intensive things to be doing with the deck too often for my liking, and this coupled with going down to 3 Ports meant I was too little taxing their lands. Daredevil, though super fun and never truly bad for me, felt like he was exacerbating the mana intensiveness issue. I achieved a win ratio of 54% with Wr Taxes of about 15 matches that I bothered to record. I totally respect opinions to the contrary and think it may just have been about something as unquantifiable and subjective as my play style better suiting a slightly different approach to the deck... Saying that, it could also be that the UK and Xmage metas are that different than the metas that others have been testing in. One thing to mention regards meta is that Grixis Delver has been way less prevalent for me than the 10-15% range I have seen in places, however according to Medea’s Wr research this should benefit the Wr build… So hey I dunno.

So I’ve moved back to a mono-white list that I have designed to be fast and have sharp teeth. Grrr. I do think it’s important to play something that feels right to you and this feels right to me, ATM. I feel I've got enough results (27 matches, 2 small events) with the list below to share. I will keep making notes and update with progress once I'm closer to or past the 100 match mark.

So there are four main things going on here:

3 Judges + 1 Wingmare. This feels like the best of both worlds. Mana denial feels strong with this mix (accompanied by 2 SB Prelate). Then we have 8 fliers, which has just been so good. I should note here that going back up to 4 Flickerwisp from the 3 in the Wr version feels really good too. EOT Wisps on their mana as a tempo play, to get blockers off the board, or to stop them attacking to win has been so much more frequent and very often a winning play. I hadn’t realised I’d missed that. The extra tempo from Judges has been very important and compounds with the tempo gained from EOT Wisps too.
3 Crusaders. Gives us teeth. Wins so many games. Feels especially good with the tempo package above, very often coming down to land the sucker punch.
Switching Batterskull for SoWaP. With 3 Crusaders and 8 fliers this just makes sense to me. In fact it’s felt great. I've barely missed the Batterskull. In situations where I haven’t wanted SoWaP I wouldn’t have wanted Batterskull either as I am going straight for SoFaI or Jitte anyway.
1 MD/1 SB Revoker split. I have been increasingly feeling that whether Revoker is effective or not is basically a coin flip, and so on that basis I really don’t want too many floating around the main deck, nor in general. It feels like a year or more ago it used to be better, but for various hard-to-grasp reasons it just doesn’t seem to be as annoying for opponents at the moment. Perhaps more removal in the format? I dunno. But It’s the sometimes-just-doesn’t-do-enough-and-having-3-or-4-wouldn’t-have-made-a-difference/sometimes-the-1-is-enough kind of tendency that makes me perfectly happy having it as a 1/1 split. So now having played a fair bit with this 1/1 split, Revoker has both won me and failed to win me games. At no point have I wished I had a Revoker and only once have I Recruited it.


MAINDECK


4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
9 Plains

4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Mother of Runes
3 Judge's Familiar
4 Thalia
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Vryn Wingmare
1 Phyrexian Revoker


SIDEBOARD v1

So I played 19 matches with my SB as follows:

2 Cataclysm
2 Gideon of the Trials
3 Rest in Peace
1 Path to Exile
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Phyrexian Revoker


RECORD WITH SB v1
Won Vs. (12)
Czech Pile, ANT, Dragon Stompy x2, White DnT, rogue UG mid-range deck, Grixis Delver, UR Delver, Manaless Dredge, Tin-fins, Lands, Punishing Thieves.

Lost Vs. (7)
Sneak and Show x2, Elves, Steel Stompy, Mono-red Sneak, BR reanimator, Grixis Delver.

Win ratio at this point was 12/19 = 63.2%. Ok, but not stellar. In particular I was unhappy with how some of the sideboarding had gone, so I made the following changes.

SIDEBOARD v2

2 Cataclysm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Path to Exile
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Council’s Judgment


RECORD WITH SB v2
I then entered two small events. The first was a 4-round side event at Axion Now in Amersham, UK (big up to Francoise and crew for a great event). The second was just a 3-rounder on Xmage. I came back with a solid winning record in both events, boosting my overall win ratio with this decklist nicely and prompting me to be bothered to share my findings. Report for both small events (plus a bonus single match on Xmage) below:


OPPONENT
RESULT
COMMENTS


BR Reanimator
2-0
(4 round IRL side event @ Axion Now, UK)
G1 just kept them off mana enough to stall them a turn or so. Double Judge good for this. Found them playing around it a lot. They played Griselbrand but I then StP’d followed by more mana denial.

G2 they played Griselbrand, passed turn, I Karakased it on their next turn so they wouldn’t have a massive hand for their turn. They then Unmasked themselves to put Griselbrand back in GY when they could have hard cast Grave Titan. I finished them in a couple of turns.


Enchantress
2-1
(4 round IRL side event @ Axion Now, UK)
G1 they double mulliganed. They scooped when I Wasted their Wild Growthed Savannah.

G2 they slowed me with Humility and got me with Helm + RiP. I missed a couple land drops which might have made a difference.

G3 they mulliganed again and I kept them at bay by restricting them to around 2/3 mana til I finished the job.


Elves
2-0
(4 round IRL side event @ Axion Now, UK)
A rare Elves win. Some luck involved, but I’ll take it thank you very much! And I do feel that some amount of the outcome was down to the specific list I was running.

G1 they had lots of dorks, in fact all the pieces for Natural Order or Glimpse combos but they didn’t draw either of them, mana denial contributing to slowing them just enough and Recruited Crusader FTW.

G2 they mulliganed to 5, all they had in play was a Reclamation Sage on nothing, preparing to sac to Natural Order. But I sniffed this and StP’d it then mana denied them to 2 mana so they wouldn’t have even been able to Abrupt Decay the Containment Priest I had down in time to play a dork into Natural Order.


Infect
2-0
(4 round IRL side event @ Axion Now, UK)
We ID to ensure prizes (a good Masterpiece each) but play anyway.

Both games I had plenty of StP’s.

G1 I mana denied them aplenty.

G2 the Judges and Wingmare were highly relevant in stopping their lone Inkmoth Nexus from adding to my 8 poison counters.


Sneak and Show
2-1
(3 round Xmage event)
A bit more detail for this one as this can be such a problematic matchup, plus I lost to this player before I upped Containment Priest to 2 SB.

G1 I had the Revoker for their Sneak Attack. But they had enough mana in play and cards in hand from Griselbrand that they were able to Show & Tell Omniscience into Emrakul. My second Karakas off of their show was therefore rendered useless. Classic Omniscience loss.

G2 surprised to see them FoW T1 Vial. Allowed me to play T2 Containment Priest in response to their S&T, for which they found nothing obviously, and I put in Mom. Backup from Port, Judge, and Thalia allowed me to seal the game.

G3 I mulligan to 5 for a not stellar but workable selection. However they have a slow hand. T3 Blood Moon, which in hindsight slowed them down. T3 Judge. T4 nothing either side. T5 my turn was the crucial turn. They had 1 mana open and a Sneak Attack in play plus a fistful of cards from their first Sneaked Griselbrand the previous turn (which got StP’d). Them on 8 me on 20. I had a Judge and Mom in play and Revoker in hand plus I only just drew my second land for the game. I have a feeling they’ve got another Griselbrand in hand so I play Revoker to bait it thinking they’ll be greedy looking for more cards, so yep they Sneak in Griselbrand and I name Sneak Attack. Then I give Judge pro black with Mom, swing to put them on 7 and render their Griselbrand useless anyway. Really this was a misplay on their part as I think they had some of Breach or S&T in hand but no other threats so should have saved Gris for next turn. However I am finding this kind of desire to wantonly go to Griselbrand for more cards can be the undoing of many Sneak/Show/reanimator players. No more threats and I win by small dorks over next two turns. I also had Leonin Relic-Warder in hand in case of Omniscience. Their Blood Moon slowing them down is something I’ve experienced against other Sol-land decks using it. With the maximum mana denial package I’m running I so often find that it just plays into what I want to do, enhancing the Judges, Wingmare, and of course Thalia. Felt great having 2 Containment Priest here again, as did having the Relic-Warder. Interesting to note that Revoker did nothing to stop them G1, which I lost, but was crucial in G3, which I won. It’s exactly this kind of fickleness about Revoker that makes me perfectly happy having it as a 1/1 split.


BR Reanimator
(heavy on Iona and Elesh)
1-2
(3 round Xmage event)
G1 they Unmask themselves into Reanimate for Iona. But I have Vial in play. I get down a Revoker naming Griselbrand, which I begin racing them with while stopping them doing anything else with my two Ports. End of their turn Vialed in Flickerwisp seals the deal with me on 6.

G2 with me on the draw, they are that crucial turn ahead of me and I can’t get enough down before they Exhume Elesh, sweeping what little I have. They back up Blood Moon and I don’t draw StP or Path (yes I’ve been sometimes running a full 4/2 where I see builds with a lot of threats and it’s frequently saved me).

G3 I have a nice hand inc. Containment Priest but I don’t have my 1 Extraction and that’s the only thing that would have saved me as they have the T1 nuts ritual>entomb Iona>exhume Iona. Can’t beat that. Especially when I don't draw Karakas. Worth noting that if I'd had a T1 Judge, they wouldn't have been able to make their T1 nut play and I'd have been able to get Priest in before their T2.


Death’s Shadow
2-0
(3 round Xmage event)
Both games mana denial plus enough removal plus their low low life total made it easy for small dorks to go all the way. Feel much more confident in this matchup having roundly lost the only other time I've played it (can’t remember whether it was with Wr or this list as it was before I started making notes) and not knowing what it was til too late.


Czech Pile
2-0
(Xmage single match)
G1 I beat double TNN with my Jitte + SoFai wielding Stoneforge!

G2 they play an early Leovold but I play around it, just developing my board. Despite the setback of double Fatal Push on Thalia and SFM in the same turn I play a backup Thalia next turn, followed by Jitte turn after, followed by Mirran Crusader turn after that. They Fatal Push my 2nd Thalia but they have no Lightning Bolt and so, of course, Crusader (+ Jitte) FTW.



WIN RATIO WITH SB v2
For only the two events and bonus single match in the report above, i.e. since the SB mod...
= 7/8
= 87.5%

OVERALL WIN RATIO
Overall with the decklist at this point
= 19/27
= 70.4%

I’m happy with how the deck is performing overall and especially happy after the SB changes, having a winning record in two small events in a row. Admittedly it’s only been 8 matches since the SB mod but the changes have felt effective, particularly having 2 Containment Priest.

So the deck in general just feels like it has a lot of redundancy in terms of mana denial while having the tempo and win cons to be able to capitalise on it. I hope the above says plenty about the deck in general so I’ll just make a few comments on the sideboard below.

Switching the Priest/Canonist split in favour of Priest feels like such a good move. Of course I could always run 2 Canonist but I just have not been feeling her to be that important, even in combo matches. The mana denial package of Judge + Wingmare + all the usuals, and backed up by 2 Prelates, feels so much more robust. Still, keeping 1 Canonist feels sensible.

I initially wanted to go to 2 Relic-Warder but then I remembered a comment from someone that Judgment can fill some of the same roles.

The lone Judgment has felt good in tandem with Relic-Warder, even when they haven’t been used they’ve made me feel secure and, alongside the 2 Paths, have lent a sense of versatility when boarding vs existential threats e.g. Omniscience, TNN, Dread of Night while being generically useful in a range of situations.

I’m actually now considering if a 2nd Relic-Warder might in fact be a good idea in place of something else to help shore up against Omni and Dread of Night (which I keep seeing people packing) still further, while being very good in the mirror and randomly shoring against any more Affinity/Steel Stompy decks that bubble up (I can see a few people jumping from their Modern or Vintage Affinity/Steel etc decks to Legacy versions for GP Birmingham, which I shall most certainly be attending!). Candidates for the 2nd Relic-Warder would be a Cataclysm (see below), or the remaining Canonist. Despite what I say above, I am tempted by switching out the last Canonist for the 2nd Relic-Warder as I feel I have quite enough protection against non-S&T-based combo already.

I haven’t yet cast Cataclysm, though it hasn’t ever been dead in my hand. However I really must play some Miracles so that I can see, amongst other things, how important having 2 Cataclysm is. They are primarily there for the Lands matchup but I beat the one Lands player I've faced so far without any need for ‘clysm, and it was the tempo and Prelate that won it for me. They are also a little awkward with the Wingmare hanging around. So for these reasons and more I could see myself possibly switching them for 2 Gideon of the Trials or 1 Gideon and a 2nd Judgment or Extraction, or just a 2nd of each Extraction and Judgment…

[DISCLAIMER]
The above results contain 0 matches Vs. Miracles and Eldrazi, and only 1 match Vs. Lands. I will of course be aiming to capture plenty more data including matches with these three decks.

I welcome questions and crit and just want to say a big thanks to all of those contributing, not least Medea for his highly entertaining and informative Twitch casts. I'm thankful to be able to build on the good work of others. Cheers

[EDIT]
After reading back through I've added a few words to clarify some plays in the event report.

[Klirre]

Hi everyone!

Been away from this thread for a while now, took a break from magic and since I returned I've been playing a lot of TES. But after stumbling in to this thread and reading about Wr being on the rise with Dire Fleet Daredevil I really want to try this out.

I played Imperial Taxes before Recruiter of the Guard got printed, but since then I've been on mono-w. I've got no Pia and Kiran anymore, but I'm not interested in warping the manabase completely to fit in that as well. I read your article Medea on the math of splashing, and I'm scared to try the 4 Cavern 4 Vial approach. My friend came with a somewhat different idea, why not try a singleton Plateau along with 4 Flagstones of Trokair in addition to cavern and vial? I'm aware that you leave the Plateau open for wasteland since it enters tapped, but Flagstones works really well along with Cataclysm post board.

So my idea is something along the lines of:
4 Mom
4 Thalia
4 Stoneforge
2 Magus
2 DFD
2 Revoker
2 Recruiter
3 Flickerwisp
1 Palace jailer
1 Serra Avenger

4 Swords
4 Vial
3 equipment

4 Waste
4 Port
4 Cavern
4 Flagstones
1 Plateau
2 Karakas
5 Plains

SB:
2 Cataclysm
Rip, Canonist, Containment Priest, Path to Exile etc.

Is this idea just silly and 4 fetches just better? I think I will at least try it out but maybe someone already has?

[NeckBird]

Played the WR version on Friday without any fetches. Only red sources were 3 Cavern, 2 Plateau, 4 Vial. Only red cards in the 75 were 2 Dire Fleet and 1 Magus.

I think I'd cut one more Plains to go up to 3 Plateau, but that's it. I'm playing so few red cards that they never felt clunky and fetches open you up to Stifle and getting clobbered by Burn. If you're afraid of Wasteland, just sandbag your red source and wait.

[ChrisCunningham]

Only red sources were 3 Cavern, 2 Plateau, 4 Vial.

I'm playing so few red cards that they never felt clunky
!! To the specific person who posted this; this is not intended as a personal attack on you !! But it is a vicious attack on the thing you said, which a lot of people say. !!

Next up here in the center ring is our final fight of the evening!

In the blue corner, we have the reigning champion, Mathematics!

Mathematics is thousands of years old and hails from the ancient beginnings of human civilization. Training for thousands of years, Mathematics has been working its entire existence to defend its title tonight! Nevermind its awesome power to explain the universe -- Mathematics specializes in giving us a model to investigate our generally poor intuition about probability. Some say that Mathematics is unapproachable, but it has a hell of a PR team -- as the current reigning champ, Mathematics is a household name to almost every man, woman, and child on Earth.

In the red corner, we have Comically Small Data Set!

An underdog, Comically Small Data Set ain't afraid to mix it up with no champion! Comically Small Data Set was formed over the course of several rounds of Magic: the Gathering last weekend and is fired up for tonight's fight! Eschewing any fancy machinery, Comically Small Data Set relies heavily on the advantage of personal experience. Everyone knows that Comically Small Data Set just feels right! And look at it! Who wouldn't root for Comically Small Data Set?

FIGHT

[itsmrjack]

In the red corner, we have Comically Small Data Set!

While you're right to flag up the problem of small data sets in that they don't allow one to extrapolate generalisable findings, there's no harm in treating them as 'pilot' studies from which we produce rather more subjective non-generalisable findings. Such findings may be very much more on the side of speculation than fact but I would argue that it's part of the process. The tension between generalisable and subjective, aka quantitative Vs qualitative, has long been a flashpoint in the sciences, but philosophy of science has moved on to the point where there seems to be increasing acknowledgement among scientists that one can assist the other—that they don't have to be mutually exclusive viewpoints.

Also, I'm not sure that anybody who uses the words 'felt'/'feels'/'feeling' about deck choices would claim that such statements are anything other than subjective.

I'm all for trying to generate more and more data as it can bring us insights that the subjective can't. But beware the tyranny of numbers. If we ignored all but the largest and most reliable datasets there would be a lack of diversity in approaches to building the deck and, more to the point, this thread would probably be a little on the thin side.

Question: is it necessary in this kind of forum for one to explicitly state whether they are offering generalisable or subjective findings? I would have thought it's fairly obvious but maybe more distinction would be better...

[Moctzal]

!! To the specific person who posted this; this is not intended as a personal attack on you !! But it is a vicious attack on the thing you said, which a lot of people say. !!

Next up here in the center ring is our final fight of the evening!

In the blue corner, we have the reigning champion, Mathematics!

Mathematics is thousands of years old and hails from the ancient beginnings of human civilization. Training for thousands of years, Mathematics has been working its entire existence to defend its title tonight! Nevermind its awesome power to explain the universe -- Mathematics specializes in giving us a model to investigate our generally poor intuition about probability. Some say that Mathematics is unapproachable, but it has a hell of a PR team -- as the current reigning champ, Mathematics is a household name to almost every man, woman, and child on Earth.

In the red corner, we have Comically Small Data Set!

An underdog, Comically Small Data Set ain't afraid to mix it up with no champion! Comically Small Data Set was formed over the course of several rounds of Magic: the Gathering last weekend and is fired up for tonight's fight! Eschewing any fancy machinery, Comically Small Data Set relies heavily on the advantage of personal experience. Everyone knows that Comically Small Data Set just feels right! And look at it! Who wouldn't root for Comically Small Data Set?

FIGHT

While I agree in principle, this is a garbage post. If you have reasons that you think math based arguments invalidate the type of argument presented, demonstrate why instead of responding with a non-fact based argument in kind. Saying "nuh-uh-cause-math" isn't an effective argument. Demonstrating an argument using math would be an effective argument.

[Medea_]

@itsmrjack

I'm glad you enjoy my content and welcome to the forums!

I'm not sure Gideon of the Trials is really anything our deck needs to be doing.
If you're interested in Judge's Familiar builds, look into Eron Relentless on MTGO if you haven't already. He had a couple of different finishes with Familiar builds that looked solid.

Obligatory comment: One thing to be wary of is the nature of your testing pool. Free platforms like Cockatrice and XMage tend to attract lower caliber players. Players tend to scoop early since nothing is at stake and players also tend to switch decks *very* frequently on those platforms. As such, your win percentage is probably going to be very inflated on those platforms. As you noticed, the meta also tends to be weird and you play against more fringe and "for fun" decks.

@Klirre
I value the ability to just slam Magus and get people. The Flagstones plan doesn't work towards that end. You also don't want to lock yourself off of white with your own Magus. The difference between a fetch and a Flagstones is pretty big on that front. Maybe try it out, but I'm not sure it's the best idea.

[Klirre]

@itsmrjack
@Klirre
I value the ability to just slam Magus and get people. The Flagstones plan doesn't work towards that end. You also don't want to lock yourself off of white with your own Magus. The difference between a fetch and a Flagstones is pretty big on that front. Maybe try it out, but I'm not sure it's the best idea.

Just goldfishing made me come to the same conclusion, the times when you get 2xFlagstones to "fetch" Plateau you're often stuck with waste, port or karakas as the third land when you slam Magus. After that you're required to find a plains to cast anything... In the end I just wanted it for the synergy with Cataclysm, but I'll have to do without it.

I just bought a Pia and Kiran Nalaar as well, so I'll have to go hunting for at least another Plateau now. I don't believe a singleton will be enough sadly.

[Medea_]

Just goldfishing made me come to the same conclusion, the times when you get 2xFlagstones to "fetch" Plateau you're often stuck with waste, port or karakas as the third land when you slam Magus. After that you're required to find a plains to cast anything... In the end I just wanted it for the synergy with Cataclysm, but I'll have to do without it.

I just bought a Pia and Kiran Nalaar as well, so I'll have to go hunting for at least another Plateau now. I don't believe a singleton will be enough sadly.

One of the non-obvious things to keep in mind with P&K is that you want red to activate the ability. If you rely too heavily on Cavern and Vial to get it in play, you might not be able to shoot things. Having multiple Plateau is certainly a good idea.

[itsmrjack]

@itsmrjack

I'm glad you enjoy my content and welcome to the forums!

I'm not sure Gideon of the Trials is really anything our deck needs to be doing.

Yeah lil' Gideon is something that I tried and didn't like so much and (probably) won't try again. Goes without saying that the bigger Gideon is by far the superior for DnT but I was keen to have a similar out to Lili and Jace that can be played on curve when I have a Thalia or Wingmare out. As I say, my build is much more about tempo so this seemed important. Besides, a couple of times recently I've been staring at an Ally of Zendikar without enough mana to cast it when needed.



If you're interested in Judge's Familiar builds, look into Eron Relentless on MTGO if you haven't already. He had a couple of different finishes with Familiar builds that looked solid.

Eron Relentless's list does look solid, and not a million miles from mine.

Differences of my list (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6775-Deck-Death-and-Taxes&p=1036630&viewfull=1#post1036630) Vs. theirs (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18147&d=312509&f=LE):

MD Wingmare in place of Prelate — I think Wingmare ties in better with the Judges
3 Crusader instead of 2 — I want consistent finishing power
1 Revoker instead of 2 — I moved one to the SB, see my original post (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6775-Deck-Death-and-Taxes&p=1036630&viewfull=1#post1036630)
4/3 Flickerwisp/Judge's Familiar split instead of 3/4 — I don't want too many late game Judges and am really enjoying the full complement of Wisps
SoWaP in place of Batterskull — 8 fliers + 3 Crusaders allows me to maximise on SoWaP

I'm going to keep testing my MD list as is for now as I haven't had any perceptible problems with it. The SB is still in progress.



Obligatory comment: One thing to be wary of is the nature of your testing pool. Free platforms like Cockatrice and XMage tend to attract lower caliber players. Players tend to scoop early since nothing is at stake and players also tend to switch decks *very* frequently on those platforms. As such, your win percentage is probably going to be very inflated on those platforms. As you noticed, the meta also tends to be weird and you play against more fringe and "for fun" decks.

I couldn't agree more. I meant to add a note to this effect accompanying my report so thanks for flagging this up. It's simply a financial thing for me at this point. I've already invested a lot in paper magic and am not solvent enough to make the leap to MTGO right now. However it is something I am looking at doing at some point. At the moment, Xmage is my tool at hand so I'm going to continue logging matches on it and will present some more stats when I get over 100 matches or so. IMHO it's still legitimate data—so long as one accepts that it isn't going to be representative of other environments, both in terms of quality and meta. However I would say that on the whole my opponents have felt plenty competent and I've only included one random rogue decks in my results because it wasn't actually horrendous. I would guess that those going to Xmage to play Legacy are more serious than for other formats. Also worth noting that Xmage is the more respectable of Xmage vs Cockatrice as it does at least contain a filter for players with high quit percentages.

Further, my best performance with the deck so far was in a real life event playing against regulars on the UK Legacy circuit (Axion Now event in the table in my earlier post), even if it was only a 4-rounder. Admittedly my data set is rather humble at this point but a big part of why I'm sharing early findings is to encourage others to do the same. I believe that the more of those in the DnT community, nay, the DnT cohort! who log and honestly report their results the more we collectively learn about the deck as a whole.

Cheers

[Medea_]

I believe that the more of those in the DnT community, nay, the DnT cohort! who log and honestly report their results the more we collectively learn about the deck as a whole.

Cheers

I believe the technical term is cult. Praise be.

[itsmrjack]

@Medea

Lol. I saw the show ;)

[FFreak]

Bad FNM:

What you think is worse game against evles or after that game against miracles (with humility) ....

Both is just sooo unbeatable

[DarthVicious]

Next up here in the center ring is our final fight of the evening!

In the blue corner, we have the reigning champion, Mathematics!

Mathematics is thousands of years old and hails from the ancient beginnings of human civilization. Training for thousands of years, Mathematics has been working its entire existence to defend its title tonight! Nevermind its awesome power to explain the universe -- Mathematics specializes in giving us a model to investigate our generally poor intuition about probability. Some say that Mathematics is unapproachable, but it has a hell of a PR team -- as the current reigning champ, Mathematics is a household name to almost every man, woman, and child on Earth.

In the red corner, we have Comically Small Data Set!

An underdog, Comically Small Data Set ain't afraid to mix it up with no champion! Comically Small Data Set was formed over the course of several rounds of Magic: the Gathering last weekend and is fired up for tonight's fight! Eschewing any fancy machinery, Comically Small Data Set relies heavily on the advantage of personal experience. Everyone knows that Comically Small Data Set just feels right! And look at it! Who wouldn't root for Comically Small Data Set?

FIGHT

*drops mic*
Internet walks away in defeat.

[Cermak]

Hi thanks for a great legacy community all my friends writes here! I have until now just read a lot but never actually posted anything here. Normally I play old school 93/94, but after meeting (pettdan) at a bar I got some interest for legacy. It really got me hooked great community and such a variety of decks to play.

I made it top 8 in a tournament with the deck last month.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31928-Oslo-Norway-Eternal-Winter-2017-Legacy-Vintage-amp-Old-School-93-94
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17517&d=308517&f=LE


And last week now with a Blue Control No taxes ( White-blue taxes.) Inspired by (Autonom).

The deck was just featured in an article (see below) and tweeted by Gerry Thompson:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-tuning-some-niche-decks


This version plays 4 Thalia and 4 Brainstorm, some people had something against that, most of them i crushed in the swiss, for me it has been worth paying 2 for both STP and Brainstorm most of the times. Finding the the cards you need and good combo with SFM and RoTG.
The heavy basic lands to get back to basics also worked out very well. Please give me some feedback. And let me know if there is some other appropriate thread, thanks!
Thanks for a great page community!


23 LANDS
4 Flooded Strand
2 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Rishadan Port
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Tundra
4 Wasteland
22 CREATURES
2 Flickerwisp
1 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Mother of Runes
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
8 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
7 OTHER SPELLS
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
1 Armageddon
1 Aura of Silence
3 Back to Basics
1 Disenchant
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Flusterstorm
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace

[Moctzal]

Why play this over Stoneblade/Deathblade?

[Cermak]

Why play this over Stoneblade/Deathblade?

For me personaly in our meta, whent way better in tournaments, and puts a aggressive touch.

[Moctzal]

For me personaly in our meta, whent way better in tournaments, and puts a aggressive touch.

Okay, but why is it better? I'm asking you to explain.

[Cermak]

Okay, but why is it better? I'm asking you to explain.
-Huge creature controll, protection, jump ledgens, non targetable creatures
-Lock out after sideboard whit btb
-extermely easy connect the attachments.

[Moctzal]

-Huge creature controll, protection, jump ledgens, non targetable creatures
-Lock out after sideboard whit btb
-extermely easy connect the attachments.

You have less removal than even mono-white D&T in your 75. You're running 2 Karakas, which is generally incorrect in D&T. 3 is the standard amount for good reason.

Aside from fetches, you're running 4 basics, and 11 non-basic lands. Back to Basics hurts you a lot.

Stoneblade connects with equipment faster due to running mana dorks.

Thalia hurts you a lot, especially with those sideboard cards, you have 28 cards that are taxable by Thalia in your 75. 22 creatures in an Aether Vial deck hurts your vial's power level, and you only have 2 creatures in your sideboard. Orzhov Pontiff with 0 lands that can cast it is bad.

You're diluting the good things about D&T and Stoneblade a lot here, and not fully benefiting from any of them.

This is just a bad hybridized deck.

[WashableWater1]

Has anyone tried out Walking Ballista in Taxes yet? It kind of plays a couple roles; as a late game mana sink, an early game removal spell or a mid-late game one sided Wrath. Its tutorable, and I've certainly played far worse creatures in that slot.

[G0R3F3ST]

I finally got to test DFD in paper and in 6 matches, the best things it has done so far is:
1) kept my burn opp. From activating a grim lavamancer for a turn.
2)I'm on the play and my Land's opp. On a mull. To 5. He turn one cast LFTL and on my turn two cast DFD to exile his LFTL. Then turn 4 flickerwisp my DFD in order to hit his second LFTL.

I will instantly side it out game 2 against any graveyard deck.

[ChrisCunningham]

Has anyone tried out Walking Ballista in Taxes yet? It kind of plays a couple roles; as a late game mana sink, an early game removal spell or a mid-late game one sided Wrath. Its tutorable, and I've certainly played far worse creatures in that slot.
I'm skeptical since our mana sinks are Rishadan Port and Batterskull, and you can't vial a Ballista, and Ballista isn't really a particularly good equipment wielder, and we don't have anything that plays it "unfairly" like Food Chain. If you could give some examples of when your opponent has a 1-toughness creature that you would like to tutor up a 2-or-4-mana answer for, then I guess I might be more interested. Opposing Mother of Runes, I guess? But in that case, Pia & Kiran or a Revoker are probably a better option.

[Medea_]

Link to vote for bonus stream (https://strawpoll.com/fsydf81z). Winner will be announced tonight after the stream.

[ChristoferV]

Hi thanks for a great legacy community all my friends writes here! I have until now just read a lot but never actually posted anything here. Normally I play old school 93/94, but after meeting (pettdan) at a bar I got some interest for legacy. It really got me hooked great community and such a variety of decks to play.

I made it top 8 in a tournament with the deck last month.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31928-Oslo-Norway-Eternal-Winter-2017-Legacy-Vintage-amp-Old-School-93-94
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17517&d=308517&f=LE


And last week now with a Blue Control No taxes ( White-blue taxes.) Inspired by (Autonom).

The deck was just featured in an article (see below) and tweeted by Gerry Thompson:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-tuning-some-niche-decks


This version plays 4 Thalia and 4 Brainstorm, some people had something against that, most of them i crushed in the swiss, for me it has been worth paying 2 for both STP and Brainstorm most of the times. Finding the the cards you need and good combo with SFM and RoTG.
The heavy basic lands to get back to basics also worked out very well. Please give me some feedback. And let me know if there is some other appropriate thread, thanks!
Thanks for a great page community!


23 LANDS
4 Flooded Strand
2 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Rishadan Port
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Tundra
4 Wasteland
22 CREATURES
2 Flickerwisp
1 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Mother of Runes
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
8 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
7 OTHER SPELLS
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
1 Armageddon
1 Aura of Silence
3 Back to Basics
1 Disenchant
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Flusterstorm
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace

I think that the list looks competitive and like a lot of fun!
Thanks for sharing your list!

[WashableWater1]

I'm skeptical since our mana sinks are Rishadan Port and Batterskull, and you can't vial a Ballista, and Ballista isn't really a particularly good equipment wielder, and we don't have anything that plays it "unfairly" like Food Chain. If you could give some examples of when your opponent has a 1-toughness creature that you would like to tutor up a 2-or-4-mana answer for, then I guess I might be more interested. Opposing Mother of Runes, I guess? But in that case, Pia & Kiran or a Revoker are probably a better option.

The mirror and infect are where being able to gun down x-1s comes in handy. Grindy matchups like Pile are where having a big creature that can blast them for the last couple points of damage comes in handy, especially in games where Port has passed the point of usefulness. Against Delver, a tutorable removal spell is nice if not efficient. It’s certainly worth considering. It does a little bit in every fair matchup, which makes me kind of want it, particularly in mono-white. Hangarback walker is a similar “tutorable 4/4” that’s better vs Pile.

How does it not carry equipment well? The point of equipment is that it makes dorky creatures threatening.

[Medea_]

Here's the draft decklist for Thursday's bonus stream. Let me know if you have any ideas for spicy singletons.

Lands
3 Karakas
11 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
Creatures
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Serra Avenger
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Mangara of Corondor
4 Mother of Runes
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Flickerwisp
Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
1 Containment Priest
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of War and Peace

[ChrisCunningham]

How does it not carry equipment well? The point of equipment is that it makes dorky creatures threatening.
Flying or First Strike or having an activated ability that helps in combat would make me more interested. For example one of the reasons Dire Fleet has a higher floor is that it wields Jitte really really well. Again, not complaining or trying to ping down your idea, just telling you why I am skeptical. I agree it would be good against Infect and decent against the mirror.

Ballista might have a better home in some kind of 8Thalia Ancient Tomb Chalice deck, though. D&T isn't doing anything broken with the card like Food Chain does; we would play it at the same power level that people play it in Standard.

[Klirre]

Here's the draft decklist for Thursday's bonus stream. Let me know if you have any ideas for spicy singletons.

Lands
3 Karakas
11 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
Creatures
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Serra Avenger
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Mangara of Corondor
4 Mother of Runes
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Flickerwisp
Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
1 Containment Priest
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of War and Peace

Wouldn't a third recruiter work well with a toolbox build like that? I have even played four back when imperial recruiter was a thing. The chance of fetching up your one off of choice improves a bit, even though you'll have to cut one silver bullet.

[Moctzal]

Here's the draft decklist for Thursday's bonus stream. Let me know if you have any ideas for spicy singletons.


Needs more Mana Tithe!

[Medea_]

Okay, I owe you guys an article. Here's one on DFD. (http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1553)

[Oogway]

Intrepid hero for eldrazi

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Intrepid hero for eldraziAt this point isn't Reprisal just better? I'm not sure this is even correct to worry about. I mean, the matchup is not really even good enough for cards like this to pay off enough to win the typical game. It could work I guess, but if you have to tutor for it, it's going to be active no earlier than turn 5, and that's not good enough imo; but just my opinion. Test it and give feedback.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[FFreak]

Why not playing peacekeeper against elvs , eldrazi .... him with an active mother :)

http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/files/2011/04/IMG_0480-Small.jpg

[piroko139]

Why not playing peacekeeper against elvs , eldrazi .... him with an active mother :)

http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/files/2011/04/IMG_0480-Small.jpgHow do you intend to win if you can't attack?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[FFreak]

The same way as if the Opponent got a Bridge out.
Flicker peacekeeper or just dont pay for the Trigger if you got a board that win on this turn.

[Moctzal]

This is right up there with Tabernacle in the sideboard.

[zebhillard]

Peacekeeper is old good "trumps Infect because that's an easy way to beat them" SB tech. I've run one before to moderate success and never had a problem playing around it when time came to close the game.

[Medea_]

New article! (http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1624) This one includes an interactive survey about mulligan decisions!

[Koke_MTG]

New article! (http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1624) This one includes an interactive survey about mulligan decisions!

This is very interesting man. I'm gonna share what I submitted including a short input on every question...

A. 2
You're pretty short on mana and do not have neither a white source nor a Vial to have a properly early game. Even you can insta-lose to an early Wasteland if you do not draw a land the first two draws.

B. 4
Being on the play is the key here. It's easier to resolve the Vial. If so, you could play 'ok' without an early white source and you'd have turns to draw it because of your utility lands will give you some time trying to disrupt. You have cards to grind and cards to constraint. I'd accept the risk here without doubt.

C. 4
You have a great hand if the game goes on the grindy mode. Removal, CA, threads... Nice against tempo as well with a solid manabase... You do not have disruption so you could lose to a very efficient start or especially against a combo deck.

D. 4
Keep, like the 95% of the Vial openers OTP IMO. I think you've to gamble here. The rest of the hand is ok. The opponent have to play a blue deck, have the FoW in hand plus other blue card and want to do so... If happens and I do not draw a white source the following turn I'll be fine loosing to a gamble that I think I should do.

E. 2
Mull. The curve is so high. D&T is a slow prison/control deck. This hand does nothing quite relevant until turn 3. There's no combo disruption and the mana denial with Port is not amazing being on the draw. I wouldn't wait to draw into something interesting and I'd mull since I need more than one single card to make this hand playable.

F. 2
Would keep on the play for sure. But on the draw you can eat Daze, discard spell and Chalice, as well as FoW. Would mull trying to improve what is already a 6 cards hand because of Batterskull.

G. 4
I don't think a 5 cards hand is gonna be better. We have a nice manabase, removal and the posibility to grind chaining Flickerwisps in mid-game. We almost insta-lose against combo but is a risk I assume easy (counting the mull as well) very often with the kind of lists we play nowadays with more capacity to grind.

H. 4
Still keeping this kind of hands on the play. Even more after a mull. Seems like you're gonna be a 'bye' against combo one more time but you have tools to grind and CA, but is important to stick a solid manabase with multiple SfM because they're very mana intensive, so it's important to have land in at least 2 draws of the next 4 (if we resolve Vial).

I. 4
It's not the best because it's quite slow, but you're facing a slow gindy deck and you ensure you'll have a powerful mid/late-game with those bombs. You've multiple of them protecting yourself from discard spells. Evaluating the hand depends a lot as well if facing a DRS start so, as usual, the best for us would be a T1 Ponder here. The hand would be amazing if we draw a SfM/RiP/Thalia the first two draws to have something to do T2.

J. 4
You have disruption in form of creatures and lands. If he does not reanimate a budy T1 you're gonna be quite ahead from T2. That's a frequent situation. I usually don't want to base my keep/mull decisions in this MU all in Priest/RiP. I think it would be too aggresive to do so when you have other tools, he's not gonna T1'ed you always and is a very unstable deck that sould mull pretty often.

K. 1
On the draw. One land. Non-basic land. No Vial (would mull it anyway even with it)...

L. 4
Not the best but definitely keep. Trying to gain some time disrupting him to draw into a real threat that make me change the gameplan through a winner one. This game is not gonna start until T4, so you've 4 draw steps in between.

M. 3
Maybe the hardest one. Knowing that is the worst matchup and I'm on the draw maybe try to be agressive finding a better opener with
like a spot removal on it because I do not have nothing to lose here.

N. 4
Similar to Czech Pile one. The threats are great. You've CA. Utility lands...
What you need here is a draw like a Vial or SfM trying to jam the game you want before start dropping bombs and/or force him some counters/removal before
the game starts for you. Otherwise he can setup a plan for your thread chaining cantrips with no preassure in front.

Ñ. 4
You've key tools for the mirror and can draw into something relevant while the Vial goes up. You've removal for the very early game and you're gonna be efficient.
Seems like you're gonna be in the control role, that's usually the one I adopt here and the most comfortable IMO.

Thoughts guys?

[iatee]

I t64'd Worcester with a WR Daredevil-less list. I got fairly lucky d1 and fairly unlucky d2. I think the Delver builds are moving in directions that are quite bad for DnT. Lots to a ton of Liliana of the Last Hope and TNNs d2.

[FeX]

so, 1 DnT player in the top32 at the open, and 2 DnT players in the top16 at the classic. not the best weekend for the deck, i guess.

as said above, true-name nemesis steals a lot of games and we cant just always race it (especially with a wall of pyro tokens). 1-2 holy light in the sideboard might not be a bad idea at all, seeing as it gets rid of both of those problems and grixis delver being the most played deck. cuts in the SB could be 1 path/1 containment priest, imo. you will lose some points to the graveyard based MUs, though they arent that common atm.

[Medea_]

@Koke_mtg
I'll write up all my thoughts later, but I don't want to tip my hand yet.

@iatee
My Grixis Delver percentages have been way closer to even recently than they used to be. I'm 15-11 with the RW build (December on) as compared to 9-3 with the WW build (a month or two before that). Now part of that is obviously due to the weakness of the RW deck to opposing mana denial and occasionally "getting Delvered" because of that, but a big part of it is Delver player a different post-board game against us.

[iatee]

I don't feel like any of the weakness I'm seeing is tied to RW being softer to mana denial. In practice the consistently relevant downside of playing RW vs them is giving their DRS a few more lands with your fetches, and there is enough upside to make up for that. I think that can be seen in the zero copies of WW in the top 32, and the only D&T deck being one with Orzhov Pontiff and a very greedy manabase. Over the course of the tournament I lost to: maindeck Abrade out of Delver, maindeck TNN a million times, Marsh Casualties via double DRS getting the dude out of Sanctum Prelate + Magus of the Moon. If you look at some of these Delver sideboards, they're just loaded with absolute haymakers postboard: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/972110#paper

Marsh Casualties, Lili, Shatter effects, more removal. And there's still the TNNs main. It's funny, when Pile was everywhere I thought it was eminently beatable (mostly because it was never a very good deck.) But if the best deck is a TNN deck, DnT probably isn't tier 1, or maybe has to be rewired significantly. Also, when the best deck is a creature deck with Wastelands, we suffer because sideboards are trying to beat creature decks with Wastelands and don't have as many Flusterstorms etc.

Anyway, it's not like I didn't beat some Delver in the tournament, and I definitely got unlucky (e.g. I played against a friend and he told me he saw his singleton TNN both games). But I don't think the matchup is favored, and DnT is a meta deck that needs to be favored vs tier 1 decks.

Regardless, it seems like DRS is 100% on the chopping block in 2018, so uh maybe we're just waiting this one out instead of finding ways to squeeze in 4 copies of Orzhov Pontiff.

[Moctzal]

Regardless, it seems like DRS is 100% on the chopping block in 2018, so uh maybe we're just waiting this one out instead of finding ways to squeeze in 4 copies of Orzhov Pontiff.

Do you there’s anything we can do with sideboarded games in the meantime vs Delver? Just jam the greedy Pontiff with 3 Cavern and get there sometimes?

[iatee]

I dunno, the Pontiff plan always seems to work in theory more than practice for me. 'You know what I need to beat Delver? A third color in my deck...' doesn't seem like a great plan for some reason. Plus, they also have board states where it does actual nothing (Flipped Delver, Angler). Council's Judgment is not really what you want to be playing vs Delver, but it might have to be?

[Medea_]

I dunno, the Pontiff plan always seems to work in theory more than practice for me. 'You know what I need to beat Delver? A third color in my deck...' doesn't seem like a great plan for some reason. Plus, they also have board states where it does actual nothing (Flipped Delver, Angler). Council's Judgment is not really what you want to be playing vs Delver, but it might have to be?

100% agreed. I've never felt Pontiff was consistent enough unless you add in a Scrubland, and that's still just one Wasteland away from sadness. In regards to your last post, I'm having the same issue. I keep losing to TNN (usually multiple copies), Abrade, Izzet Staticaster, Marsh Casualties, Dread of Night, Lili Last Hope.... It's been rough. Like, it's almost enough to make me want to reconsider how I'm boarding for the matchup.

[scapiander]

@Medea

any comments on this U/W list in 5th place?

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-03-05

[Moctzal]

100% agreed. I've never felt Pontiff was consistent enough unless you add in a Scrubland, and that's still just one Wasteland away from sadness. In regards to your last post, I'm having the same issue. I keep losing to TNN (usually multiple copies), Abrade, Izzet Staticaster, Marsh Casualties, Dread of Night, Lili Last Hope.... It's been rough. Like, it's almost enough to make me want to reconsider how I'm boarding for the matchup.

I’ve been picking people’s brains about that on the Discord, and I think I want to keep in my creatures that cantrip. It’s turning into a matchup that feels closer to Czech Pile post-board. Maybe Council’s Judgment in the board is a necessary evil, and boarding out Magus is correct. One of the places DFD has been best for me is against Delver. It almost always has something to do when I see it.

If we have more events like these, I don’t think DRS is long for this world.

Did you guys hear Bob Huang say his winrate is above 80% with Grixis Delver?

[WashableWater1]

I still feel pretty favored against Delver, though I do often feel like you have to think pretty hard about what you spend your removal on. I sideboard-3 Revoker -1 Prelate -1 Mirran Crusader +2 Path +1 Blessed Alliance +2 Councils Judgement.

Overstating matchups is a classic Legacy mistake. We all do it.

[Medea_]

@Medea

any comments on this U/W list in 5th place?

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-03-05

It's interesting. I might stream a league with it at some point.

Last night I kept Recruiters in against Delver, whereas I boarded them out in the past. The games ended up being pretty grindy, so I think I'll continue to test that. I'm also not sure where I'm falling on RiP in that matchup given how the deck has been changing. It's great against the DRS/Gurmag Angler portion of the deck, but doesn't help us win against TNN (the big problem) or against the stellar sideboard cards that wreck us.

[jubeininja69]

i searched thread but can't find answers.

for mono white taxes, why are some lists trimming to 1-2 cavern of souls? Is 1 enough?

Also is it good to run white fetches to thin out the deck?

[EronRelentless]

i searched thread but can't find answers.

for mono white taxes, why are some lists trimming to 1-2 cavern of souls? Is 1 enough?

Also is it good to run white fetches to thin out the deck?

You don't need so many Cavern of Souls because Counterbalance is not a matter that much anymore. The most common use for it would be resolving Mother of Runes against Chalice of the Void (unimportant) or cancelling the Chancellor of Annex trigger (can be useful) or resolving a Thalia on curve against Delver Decks (can be very important).

The Thinning of the Deck doesn't make a big difference. There a certain articles which prove mathematically that it's almost no difference. On the other Hand you have Recruiter of the Guard and Stoneforge Mystic as well, so i think that will be enough to thinout and reduce variance. On the other Hand the lifeloss can matter in some Matchups. So the benefit is really small overall.

I think it is very important to have 10 Basic Plains in the mono White Versions because the mana base is one hidden strengths of the Deck to not to be soft to Blood Moon, Wasteland, Price of Progress and Back to Basics.

[EronRelentless]

Last night I kept Recruiters in against Delver, whereas I boarded them out in the past. The games ended up being pretty grindy, so I think I'll continue to test that. I'm also not sure where I'm falling on RiP in that matchup given how the deck has been changing. It's great against the DRS/Gurmag Angler portion of the deck, but doesn't help us win against TNN (the big problem) or against the stellar sideboard cards that wreck us.

I also liked keeping the Recruiters against Grixis Delver as well. Some of the Matches get grindy and we know who probably wins if you can chain Flickerwisps again and again or get a Stoneforge with the equipment at the right moment.

Rest in Peace has the benefits of shutting down DRS, Lavamancer and Angler completely and keeps Ancient Grudge and Cabal Therapy low, so you maybe keep one of the equipments. But I also was not willing to take out other Cards from the Deck as well, so I am not sure if we need to bring it in or not.

[Medea_]

This (https://clips.twitch.tv/RichBrightGrouseBigBrother) is one of the better clips from the stream tonight. The whole thing was a hoot, but this was superb.

[Fred_Bear]

This is very interesting man. I'm gonna share what I submitted including a short input on every question...

A. 2
You're pretty short on mana and do not have neither a white source nor a Vial to have a properly early game. Even you can insta-lose to an early Wasteland if you do not draw a land the first two draws.

B. 4
Being on the play is the key here. It's easier to resolve the Vial. If so, you could play 'ok' without an early white source and you'd have turns to draw it because of your utility lands will give you some time trying to disrupt. You have cards to grind and cards to constraint. I'd accept the risk here without doubt.

C. 4
You have a great hand if the game goes on the grindy mode. Removal, CA, threads... Nice against tempo as well with a solid manabase... You do not have disruption so you could lose to a very efficient start or especially against a combo deck.

D. 4
Keep, like the 95% of the Vial openers OTP IMO. I think you've to gamble here. The rest of the hand is ok. The opponent have to play a blue deck, have the FoW in hand plus other blue card and want to do so... If happens and I do not draw a white source the following turn I'll be fine loosing to a gamble that I think I should do.

E. 2
Mull. The curve is so high. D&T is a slow prison/control deck. This hand does nothing quite relevant until turn 3. There's no combo disruption and the mana denial with Port is not amazing being on the draw. I wouldn't wait to draw into something interesting and I'd mull since I need more than one single card to make this hand playable.

F. 2
Would keep on the play for sure. But on the draw you can eat Daze, discard spell and Chalice, as well as FoW. Would mull trying to improve what is already a 6 cards hand because of Batterskull.

G. 4
I don't think a 5 cards hand is gonna be better. We have a nice manabase, removal and the posibility to grind chaining Flickerwisps in mid-game. We almost insta-lose against combo but is a risk I assume easy (counting the mull as well) very often with the kind of lists we play nowadays with more capacity to grind.

H. 4
Still keeping this kind of hands on the play. Even more after a mull. Seems like you're gonna be a 'bye' against combo one more time but you have tools to grind and CA, but is important to stick a solid manabase with multiple SfM because they're very mana intensive, so it's important to have land in at least 2 draws of the next 4 (if we resolve Vial).

I. 4
It's not the best because it's quite slow, but you're facing a slow gindy deck and you ensure you'll have a powerful mid/late-game with those bombs. You've multiple of them protecting yourself from discard spells. Evaluating the hand depends a lot as well if facing a DRS start so, as usual, the best for us would be a T1 Ponder here. The hand would be amazing if we draw a SfM/RiP/Thalia the first two draws to have something to do T2.

J. 4
You have disruption in form of creatures and lands. If he does not reanimate a budy T1 you're gonna be quite ahead from T2. That's a frequent situation. I usually don't want to base my keep/mull decisions in this MU all in Priest/RiP. I think it would be too aggresive to do so when you have other tools, he's not gonna T1'ed you always and is a very unstable deck that sould mull pretty often.

K. 1
On the draw. One land. Non-basic land. No Vial (would mull it anyway even with it)...

L. 4
Not the best but definitely keep. Trying to gain some time disrupting him to draw into a real threat that make me change the gameplan through a winner one. This game is not gonna start until T4, so you've 4 draw steps in between.

M. 3
Maybe the hardest one. Knowing that is the worst matchup and I'm on the draw maybe try to be agressive finding a better opener with
like a spot removal on it because I do not have nothing to lose here.

N. 4
Similar to Czech Pile one. The threats are great. You've CA. Utility lands...
What you need here is a draw like a Vial or SfM trying to jam the game you want before start dropping bombs and/or force him some counters/removal before
the game starts for you. Otherwise he can setup a plan for your thread chaining cantrips with no preassure in front.

Ñ. 4
You've key tools for the mirror and can draw into something relevant while the Vial goes up. You've removal for the very early game and you're gonna be efficient.
Seems like you're gonna be in the control role, that's usually the one I adopt here and the most comfortable IMO.

Thoughts guys?

I'll share my thoughts as well. I've only recently picked up the deck online and do not have nearly the reps with it as others, but here is how I answered...

A. 2
I think not having a 'guaranteed' white source makes this one questionable. You are very susceptible to Wasteland and SFM would be the key to this being a strong hand.

B. 3
Wasteland or a Turn 0 Force are your only real concerns with this hand. If the Vial sticks, you are in good shape. If not, you are in trouble.

C. 4
This is a solid hand.

D. 1
I pitch this. Again, if Vial sticks, you might be alright, but if it doesn't, you get blown out. There are a lot of 6-card hands that are better than this.

E. 2-3
I would keep this in a league on MTGO, but probably not in a Challenge or at a Tournament. It's slow, but has the potential to turn into a blowout if the removal or Crusader is relevant.

F. 3
I would gamble on this one. Batterskull would be way better as a Swords given the rest of the hand, but the Plains gives this hand more options than Hand D.

G. 3
I'm not sure I want to drop to 5, but this is going to be a slow hand with narrow lines of play.

H. 3
Still not happy with this. If we Scry a Plains, this hand is awesome. If we Scry into no lands, we could get blownout. Having a Vial and a way to play it makes it better than going to 5, though.

I. 4
I'd gamble on this. The hand is slow and susceptible to hand disruption, but we are up a game. I'd make him have the answers. If he doesn't this hand has what it needs to win.

J. 5
I'd go all in on this. You'll lose to the nuts, but when wouldn't you?

K. 1
Trap hand. Looks great but without the second land, we may never resolve a spell.

L. 3
I don't like keeping a 5-land hand in general, but disrupting lands is an effective strategy in this match-up. If they miss a land drop or board development early, this is a blowout for us once Thalia lands.

M. 4
I think this hand is a little slow and mana intensive, but it has the tools to disrupt them long enough to establish a game plan. A Sword-wielding Priest is just a flavorful image to win with, too.

N. 3
I think this is too slow, but the Recruiters provide us the tools to get what we need, so I'd probably take a shot and try to grind.

O. 4
There are a couple of lines of play and I'd be comfortable taking the control route.


I should say that I normally play Stax or Armageddon Stax, so I'm pretty comfortable going to six and might be a little more aggressive with my mulligan decisions because of it.

Love the discussion!

[iatee]

I would keep 100% of the hands in that article. I almost never don't keep 1 land Vial hands. No fear.

[Mad Mat]

Dumb things in (grixis) delver decks like true-name, null rod, jitte, needle, dread of night, liliana... are the reason why I've been boarding in council's judgment against them for a while now. The only downside of the card before was that it was weak to their countermagic, but they tend to board those out now for their control-ish cards. And being a piece of removal makes it never truly unwanted against an aggro deck. This often comes at the cost of rest in peace, but that card's rather dubious against grixis anyway. It can really wreck them, but often you'll find a lack of immediate impact on the board and poor value late game that make you want to keep it in the side.


You don't need so many Cavern of Souls because Counterbalance is not a matter that much anymore. The most common use for it would be resolving Mother of Runes against Chalice of the Void (unimportant) or cancelling the Chancellor of Annex trigger (can be useful) or resolving a Thalia on curve against Delver Decks (can be very important).
Resolving a mother against chalice is rarely relevant, as the scariest chalice decks for us are things like eldrazi or steel stompy. The most common use of cavern is to resolve key cards against delver, miracles and combo (sneaky show, infect). It's also obviously good when splashing because it facilitates the splash and the ability to resolve the high-impact cards you're splashing for through countermagic.

Counterbalance was pretty subpar against d&t pre-ban, due to the risk of vial, the high fraction of 3-drops, the low immediate board impact, the ability to revoke half of the lock and, indeed, the presence of cavern; yet the main importance of cavern lied in the fow's and counterspells they played, because the card advantage engines they ran ensured they'd get a good stock of those. Cavern/vial + karakas + legend was a very good foil to that (and still is). If only Leovold had been BGW we'd all be playing vial maverick today.


I think it is very important to have 10 Basic Plains in the mono White Versions because the mana base is one hidden strengths of the Deck to not to be soft to Blood Moon, Wasteland, Price of Progress and Back to Basics.
The big problem with plains in d&t is that the card has such grave diminishing returns. You want at least 1, preferably 2, and only very rarely more. Reducing their count exposes you to nonbasic hate, but you have to keep in mind that a lot of nonbasic hate cards tend to be sideboard material that is rather dubious in power level for siding in against us, not to mention often a double-edged sword. If they're played in the main, the opponent has to make the decision of whether they're worth keeping in, as we have a significant chance of playing around them, making them ill-affordable dead weight. This is particularly problematic if you're on mono white and play 7 or more basics. No good players is going to keep or side in moon, basics or price knowing that.

[ironclad8690]

Hey guys.

I was looking through the dominaria spoiler and this card caught my attention:

Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
1U
Legendary Creature — Human Rogue
1/3
Creatures you control with power or toughness 1 or less can't be blocked.

Unblockable Thalia, Flickerwisp, Phyrexian Revoker. He does push you into blue, but he is a legend so there is possibility for karakas shenanigans. You can also remove counters from a Jitte after blockers declared so that's kinda cool.

[Barook]

Hey guys.

I was looking through the dominaria spoiler and this card caught my attention:

Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
1U
Legendary Creature — Human Rogue
1/3
Creatures you control with power or toughness 1 or less can't be blocked.

Unblockable Thalia, Flickerwisp, Phyrexian Revoker. He does push you into blue, but he is a legend so there is possibility for karakas shenanigans. You can also remove counters from a Jitte after blockers declared so that's kinda cool.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed it. It's a human, so it's also castable with Cavern. It can't be fetched with Recruiter of the Guard, so there's that. Getting around TNN and other annoying blockers is pretty cool, though.

[Medea_]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed it. It's a human, so it's also castable with Cavern. It can't be fetched with Recruiter of the Guard, so there's that. Getting around TNN and other annoying blockers is pretty cool, though.

You're not going deep enough! It also makes your TNN unblockable!

[Barook]

Jokes aside, this is probably the best card in the set:

Damping Sphere :2:
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs :1: more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.

Seems like a decent SB card for D&T:
- attacks Storm
- attacks Elves in various ways (Cradle, Symbiote/Visionary, Glimpse chains)
- attacks Stompy decks (minor, probably not good enough as an effect to bring it in)
- attacks infinite combos like Aluren, Food Chain and the likes

Thoughts?

[Moctzal]

Jokes aside, this is probably the best card in the set:

Damping Sphere :2:
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs :1: more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.

Seems like a decent SB card for D&T:
- attacks Storm
- attacks Elves in various ways (Cradle, Symbiote/Visionary, Glimpse chains)
- attacks Stompy decks (minor, probably not good enough as an effect to bring it in)
- attacks infinite combos like Aluren, Food Chain and the likes

Thoughts?

It’s a cool card, but I don’t think D&T wants it when Ethersworn Canonist covers most of the same ground.

[kramer733]

is Medea_ , aka deathandtaxesftw , creator of thrabenuniversity, one of the best death and taxes pilots in the world?

[NeckBird]

It’s a cool card, but I don’t think D&T wants it when Ethersworn Canonist covers most of the same ground.

It's definitely worth testing. I think other decks want it more (Merfolk, Painter). White just has so many busted sideboard cards that there might not be room for it. Dodging creature removal is pretty important and that's definitely something to consider. The problem is that so many people are bringing in artifact hate that Canonist being a clock, giving it protection from Mom, and tutorable are pretty important.

[Medea_]

is Medea_ , aka deathandtaxesftw , creator of thrabenuniversity, one of the best death and taxes pilots in the world?

Nah, totally incompetent. 0/10 stars.

[Tylert]

Nah, totally incompetent. 0/10 stars.

Don't be so hard with yourself.

Good players with D&T are the dans. Thomas enevoldsen and Michael Bonde (One of them is bahra i think?)

[Medea_]

I should have added a winky face to my last post...

Anyway, it's Marc Konig that goes by the handle Bahra. Enevoldsen goes by Scabs.

Other notable regular D&T players include:
Mike Derczo
Iatee

People who have spiked big events:
Andrew Calderon
Craig Wescoe

Notable MTGO names that show up a ton:
Malimujo
Koke_mtg
Eron Relentless

Edit: and Egget as well.

[Moctzal]

Poor Michael Bonde gets no love.

He's the Ringo of D&T players.

[Medea_]

Poor Michael Bonde gets no love.

He's the Ringo of D&T players.

I like Bonde. I said *other* notable D&T players. His videos were the super league were great.

[Tylert]

Enevoldsen has betrayed us. he played something like 4C delver or czech pile at the team trio GP... :(

[Whitefaces]

Enevoldsen has betrayed us. he played something like 4C delver or czech pile at the team trio GP... :(

He mentions it briefly here, he played Czech Pile.

https://twitter.com/therealenevolds/status/972581253416439809

[Finn]

I kinda like the orb. It fits the DnT style of broad, weak disruption pretty solidly. Put another way, if you have one in your sideboard, you are very likely to board it in against a variety of opponents and be happy with it. For anyone using an enlightened tutor sideboard, it looks like a definite pickup. I betcha it’s great against a lot of fringe rogue stuff also.

[Medea_]

I'm 100% testing that orb.

Unrelated, here are the long-awaited results (http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?page_id=41) of the D&T mulligan survey.

[G0R3F3ST]

I went 3-1 at my lgs weekly legacy event, using the 4 vryn wingmare list. that Medea streamed last week. I was on camera for rounds 2-4, but only as the back up game. I was really hoping to re-watch my matches. However, most of the gameplay is bits and pieces of my matches.

Rnd 1: mono red control 2-0
Game 1: I flickered his ensnaring bridge two turns in a row in order to kill him.
Game 2: I council's judgement his bride and kill him.

Rnd 2: 4c control 2-0
Game 1: double wasteland, swords drs, Thalia, flying Thalia, and opp. Scopes to Sofia.
Game 2: triple wasteland, swords drs, swords drs, Thalia, flying Thalia, and opp. scopes it up.

Round 3: 4c control 2-1
Game 1: I know my opp. Is on the same deck because he was sitting next to us on the feature matches. My game plan was pretty much the same as last match tax him to death and it worked perfectly!
Game 2: I kept a bad 6 and after he plays Jace on turn
4, I scope. I really just wanted to be back on the play again.
Game 3: this game was really grindy. There were a few K. Commands but eventually my opp. Scopes to an army of flyers.

Round 4: miracles 0-2
I was never in this match. My opp. Had every answer to every single play I made.

I apologize for the quick breakdown of my matches. I don't take notes so remembering everything is a challenge.
I really enjoyed this build, but I'm pretty sure my opponents hated me. I'm going to jam it again on Friday and hopefully have the same results.

[redtwister]

Played a 26 team Tri-wizard event yesterday, I was representing RW DnT. My only losses were to Mono-W DnT (same guy, we drew the first one but he probably would have won and I lost the second one clearly; turns out that if your opponent in the mirror hits 3 moms and 3 Revokers each game in the first 5 turns and either gets Vial when you don't or names Vial with Revoker when you do, it is a tough match and even 4 StP/PtE can't get you out of it.) We still made the semis and got 3rd or 4th place (I didn't stay to check.)

I think my sideboard was suboptimal, I don't see a lot of people running PtE in the side any longer. Also, no one seems to be running Crusader, preferring Palace Jailer instead. Reasons?

Probably would swap the lands around and go -1 Port, -1 Plateau, +1 Cavern, +1 Fetch.

23 LANDS
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Flooded Strand
3 Karakas
3 Plains
3 Plateau
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath

26 CREATURES
2 Dire Fleet Daredevil
3 Flickerwisp
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Mother of Runes
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Instants
4 Swords to Plowshares

7 Artifacts
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

SIDEBOARD
3 Path to Exile
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
1 Containment Priest
1 Council's Judgment
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Pia and Kirran Nalaar
1 Holy Light

I think I would do this with the sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Council's Judgment
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Rest in Peace
1 Containment Priest
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Pia and Kirran Nalaar
1 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Sword of War and Peace

[iatee]

I think Path is as good as ever, considering that Grixis Delver is the best deck in legacy. The format is the 'beat DRS' game right now, and dropping both a RiP and Paths is definitely not the way to do that - the second sideboard looks like it's built to beat Miracles.

[redtwister]

@iatee

In the first sideboard, are you going with PtE + 1-2 Relic versus Grixis Delver?

[iatee]

You mean RiP, right? I think I would do:

-2 Recruiter -1 P/k -2 Revoker -1 Crusader
+3 PTE +2 RiP +1 Holy Light

[Medea_]

I think Path is as good as ever, considering that Grixis Delver is the best deck in legacy. The format is the 'beat DRS' game right now, and dropping both a RiP and Paths is definitely not the way to do that - the second sideboard looks like it's built to beat Miracles.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure 3 Paths is probably mandatory in the board now for both RW and WW. I'm not actually sure I like RiP in the Grixis Delver matchup anymore though; I've stopped boarding in it so I can keep my recruiters post-board vs their more grindy gameplan.

[Koke_MTG]

Top 4'd the Legacy Challenge (85 players) last night with non-DFD Wr D&T.

Czech Pile, the D&T master Thomas Enevoldsen (2-0)
Czech Pile, the Pile master Tomas Mar (0-2)
Big Eldrazi (2-0)
Grixis Delver (2-1)
UW StoneBlade (2-1)
Czech Pile (2-0)
UWR Miracles (2-0)

Top 8:

Dragon Stompy (2-0)
UWR Miracles, Anuraag Das (0-2)

The deck felt great in a meta with a decent amount of fair (and greedy manabase) decks, opposite than competitive leagues IMO.

Luckily a friend of mine could avenge me in the finals :)

[Mannaus]

Congratulations on your results Koke. Out of curiosity, what went so different between your 2 first matches vs Czech Pile?

And now I have a more general question about the Miracle's matchup: how do you guys apprehend the matchup? And what's your way to approach the game plan?

I am lucky enough to have a friend on Miracles with whom I can test the matchup a lot. Since it's back on the front of the scene, I've found the matchup to be very unfavorable, and thus have been open to try some new strategies, or game plans.
And quite surprisingly, I got some good results recently on a Wb build (splash for Orzhov Pontiff) by boarding out the whole SFM package (note: I do not play a Sword of War and Peace in the side), and keeping in 2x Mirran Crusader and Palace Jailer in. My gameplan would then be putting a lot of board pressure with creatures (Thalia, Wisp, Mirran), with backup removal spells (Council Judgement, Cataclysm and Surgical for either StP or Terminus. StP being boarded out), and play the residual control game with 2x Sanctum (1 main 1 board) and 3x Revoker. It turned out that getting 4 - 8 pts of damage in the time SFM would actually be active was more relevant. Plus Disenchant effects were less of a pain.
Jailer turned out surprisingly good as well, either to get rid of Mentor before he gets out of hand or to create pure card advantage. It requires some experience in the matchup to ponder whether it's too risky to jam it, but I've had only good results when using it carefully.

Obviously, and as always, I've felt like playing another deck when I had a resolved Vial to rely on. But that's just old news.

What do you think? And what's your overall feeling on the matchup?

[Koke_MTG]

Well, the Czech Pile matchup is based on who can outgrind the other no matter what. For this reason, I think with my Wr build is an OK matchup because you have so many tools to do so. Otherwise, Czech Pile is the best deck in the format doing that... Is a pretty nice battle in which the luck always stays there for sure and the guy that gets more CA and/or can do more/better unfair things is gonna win most likely.

R1 G1: I ended up winning because of Karakas + Thalia + P&K advantage.
R1 G2: Involved Cataclysm + Palace Jailer (I lost the crown at some point to recover it after Cataclysm) + mana screw of Thomas after Cataclysm helped with Thalia, Port, killed DRS with Jitte... and ending the game with P&K. So almost every single grindy tool. Not bad ^^

R2 G1: He kept at one turn attacking with 3 P&K thopters but also had Bolt + 2 active DRS and finished me at 10+ lifes in his last turn.
R2 G2: I established Thalia + RiP + some utility lands until he sequence Marsh Casualties into JtMS, forcing me to play a Cataclysm that was not amazing and he ended up recovering better than me with DRS and Strixes.

On the other hand, I consider the Miracles matchup even more Vial-dependant for us that it was before. You can fight games without it but it's really hard, our deck becomes linear and predictable by them, jamming a single creature every turn, at sorcery speed, without doing some important things at the same time like Porting, wasting tempo equiping, etc... They're like opposite poles games. Overall, I think it'is pretty balanced and, as I always say, is the matchup I enjoy the most in Legacy!

I approach the matchup as some other grindy games, trying to get CA out of nowhere, on every single interaction. Obviously is pretty different than grind a BGx based deck, as I feel myself playing more carefully (you can be out after every single cantrip if you're not paying attention to what's happening) and giving much more value to Vial, as it's a deck more efficient, more resilient to our mana denial and a deck that can force you to interact, contrary to BGx grindy decks that are more proactive and they're gonna interact naturally. Miracles can play a role similar to a combo deck if you do nothing.

[Black_Diamond]

Hi @ll,

I played a Blue Tax list at a monthly tournament (40 players) and I want to give you a short report. Here are the 75´s.


Main:
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
2 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
4 Mother of Runes
1 Palace Jailer
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
2 Spell Queller
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Tundra
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Back to Basics
1 Containment Priest
1 Council's Judgment
1 Disenchant
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Flusterstorm
2 Meddling Mage
1 Palace Jailer
1 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
1 Chill


The tournament was ok with 3-3-0. I started 3-0 and wasn´t able to win at least a fourth match, but for an untested/unplayed deck it was ok.
Round 1 vs. Grixis Delver 2-1; Highlights: Game 3 I have more TNNs than him and can equip Batterskull to TNN
Round 2 vs. Omnitell 2-0; Highlights: Game 2 Meddling Mage on Show and Tell
Round 3 vs. Show and Tell 2-0
Round 4 vs. Turbo Depths 0-2
Round 5 vs Storm 1-2; Lowlights: Game 2 Nuts for the opponent turn 2 Kill, Game 3 Opp draws Cabal Therapy to strip my canonist
Round 6 vs. BUG Delver 0-2; Lowlights: Opp had in both games the perfect answers and lines to my cards

Chill was a meta call because there could be a lot of Burn and Red Fringe decks at this tournament. Furthermore I played 1 Venser, Shaper Savant and 1 Palace Jailer in contrast to the list on Magic Online with 2 Palace Jailers in the main. Venser was very cool in the main and I was always happy when I drew him. He can be very strong in long games when you can setup enough mana and Karakas. Field of ruin is quite nice and I think I would continue with 2 of them. Meddling Mage was MVP vs a lot of decks and I boarded him a lot.
Overall it was a lot of fun to play this list and it is funny to see the opponents faces when you start to cast brainstorm or “counter” (with Speller and Venser) in a “DNT” Deck. I will definitely continue testing the deck.

At the moment I am not sure which deck I would play at GP Birmingham Blue Tax or RW Taxes, some advices from you guys?

Cheers

[Medea_]

I would not recommend playing a relatively untested decklist that hasn't put up a ton of results unless you are *very* confident in its win rate.

[soccerfanxl]

Playing in the SCG team tournament. I hadnt played legacy since the top banning until last week (played mono green 12 post and it made me rage quit the format with the banning) I started with the stock lists ( single avenger,palace jailer) lists. I started doing some slight tweaks to fit my style of play and this is where I am currently


Creature (26)
4x Flickerwisp
1x Mangara of Corondor
2x Mirran Crusader
4x Mother of Runes
3x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Recruiter of the Guard
1x Sanctum Prelate
1x Spirit of the Labyrinth
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Land (23)
2x Cavern of Souls
3x Karakas
10x Plains
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
Artifact(7)
4x Aether Vial
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Instant (4)
4x Swords to Plowshares
Sideboard (15)
1x Cataclysm
1x Containment Priest
2x Council's Judgment
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Faerie Macabre
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Holy Light
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
1x Path to Exile
1x Peacekeeper
2x Rest in Peace
1x Sword of War and Peace

Ive gone 4-1, 5-0, 2-3,3-2 so some mixed results.

Ill probably cut the mangara, its been very meh, often dont live the dream of bouncing with karakas and I usually wish it was a threat when I draw into it, however I didnt care too much for avenger so maybe a 3rd mirran crusader?

In the board holy light has over performed, getting pyro and friends off the table and having another answer for true name nemisis and elves decks. Havent played against infect since my return but I imagine its fine there as well....

Peace keeper is another card thats over performing ,great to tutor up when behind until you can get into a slightly more favorable position or using wisp to flick it on their endstep so you can chip in some damage, also keeps elves at bay.

sword of war and peace, I just cant decide, obviously great in the mirror but I've cut it from the board a few times, usually for a 2nd cataclysm- is this sword really needed? I dont expect many people to play DNT in paper.

Just looking for some insight on why I may be wrong with some of my choices. Like I said, Ive had mixed results so maybe Ive just been lucky with this current set up.

[Medea_]

D&T is one of the most popular decks for paper events. All of the reprints are making that even more true. It usually sits at ~7% of the metagame, and it was 8% of the day 2 metagame of Worcester. It's worth having some sort of plan for the mirror, though that plan doesn't have to include SoWaP.

Crusader is great right now. Your hunch is probably correct there. I'd also recommend cutting Spirit of the Labyrinth; that card has been absolute trash for me in some pretty extensive testing.

[EronRelentless]

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=83311&type=card

Recently I had some minds about the Card Weathered Wayfarer in DnT builds in your 75s, but I am not sure about the amount of Slots you can use for it. Usually I would say this Card is a 1-of maximum as you can search for it with Recruiter of the Guard.

The Card enables a kind of toolbox of your Lands to get something like Karakas, Cavern of Souls, Wasteland/Ghost Quarter, Mishra's Factory or even some spicy things like Thespian's Stage for opposing Dark Depths. This List could be long...

For your understanding I would like to point out the fact, that you can Wasteland your opponent and hold priority, to have less Lands in play than him/her and then use the Wayfarer to get another Wasteland.

Would be interesting what you other players think about the Card and the positioning in the current Metagame and maybe show Matchup where it shines and where you shouldn't count on it.

kind regards

[Fatal]

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=83311&type=card

Recently I had some minds about the Card Weathered Wayfarer in DnT builds in your 75s, but I am not sure about the amount of Slots you can use for it. Usually I would say this Card is a 1-of maximum as you can search for it with Recruiter of the Guard.

The Card enables a kind of toolbox of your Lands to get something like Karakas, Cavern of Souls, Wasteland/Ghost Quarter, Mishra's Factory or even some spicy things like Thespian's Stage for opposing Dark Depths. This List could be long...

For your understanding I would like to point out the fact, that you can Wasteland your opponent and hold priority, to have less Lands in play than him/her and then use the Wayfarer to get another Wasteland.

Would be interesting what you other players think about the Card and the positioning in the current Metagame and maybe show Matchup where it shines and where you shouldn't count on it.

kind regards

Wayfarer required fetchlands to be effective. It was used in really days of vial Maverick as a source of CA and lock piece combined with Scryb ranger which is great enabler for him. Was dropped bacuase of too many little dorks with X/1 statistics expose you to -1/-1 effects. It is also quite slow and require Mana investment same as port.

Maybe some new vial version with him and Raillerem would see play, try to break new build. But you mostly loses tempo which is so good in today D&T and loses toolboxing which is implemented in Maverick, and gain slow wasteland lock based on X/1 creatures.

So better try G/W build based on vials with 4 Railler, 4 Flickerwisp, so more focused on CA to fight nasty k.command but with focus on tempo.

[Finn]

Blue-white DNT hates itself too much. You may have a good go with it at first, but you will grow to hate the issues that come up in the long run.

[Lord Darkview]

So, I finally took the plunge to go from 1998-style ShadowClysm to 2018-style DnT. The creatures had already shifted, but adopting mana-denial through lands over 4-mana sorceries is achange that's 20 years overdue. Medea_ gave me some pointers (https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/control/179856-deck-death-and-taxes?comment=16356) already, but I remembered that this (http://www.mtgthesource.com) is the place to be to talk Legacy. I'm having a blast already, and I'm in love with the highly technical play-style.

I'm also reading the dialogue about SB options and splashes. I'm going to stick to the staple mono-white list for now, but I am paying a lot of attention to the nuances of what is being discussed. In particular, tweaking around my SB based on what I'm reading (ie: figuring out how to cram in a pair of PtEs).

I don't really have a lot to contribute yet, as I know I don't have enough experience yet. The only thing that jumped out at me was wondering if anyone had ever tried packing a mainboard Canonist or two, either instead of or in addition to the Thalia, Guardian slots. It seems to me this would go a long way towards helping some of the more problematic match-ups, has general utility, and wouldn't really undermine the main game.

[H]

I don't really have a lot to contribute yet, as I know I don't have enough experience yet. The only thing that jumped out at me was wondering if anyone had ever tried packing a mainboard Canonist or two, either instead of or in addition to the Thalia, Guardian slots. It seems to me this would go a long way towards helping some of the more problematic match-ups, has general utility, and wouldn't really undermine the main game.

It definitely has been done, I used to do it in the Treasure Cruise era and at times when people happened to be playing a lot of Storm around here. Never in place of Thalia though, she is the reason the deck exists and even if it punishes you from time to time with obnoxious multiples, I don't think it's a great idea to remove any.

In these days of Recruiter, I certainly would not maindeck more than one Canonist though. It is sometimes good, sometimes literally a grizzly bear, sometimes just too slow in the matchups where you really want it anyway. It's fine, try it out and see how it does in your meta. But don't cut the critical creatures of the deck for it though, it's not that good.

[Medea_]

@lord darkview

Welcome to the forums! Canonist is a reasonable maindeck card, but people often find that it's a bit lackluster.

[redtwister]

Has anyone else been watching Bahra's SfM-less builds on stream? I have seen bits of them but work has not allowed to me to watch them completely. Any thoughts on going SfM/Equipment-less? Clearly, it opens up slot to do other things, but it also introduces some weaknesses. I asked him how he like it and he said it was good but different and not necessarily better.

[_WD40_]

Can someone please post Bahra's latest SFM-less list of 75 here please.

[redtwister]

Main
5 Fetch lands
3 Plateau
3 Plains
3 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Scrubland

4 Aether Vial

4 Mom
4 SotL
4 TGoT
4 Serra Avenger
4 Direfleet Daredevil
4 Vryn Wingmare
4 Flickerwisp
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Hallowed Spiritkeeper
1 Magus

Sideboard
3 PtE
2 Pontiff
2 Council's Judgment
1 Surgical
1 Containment Priest
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Mindbreak trap
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pia and Kirran
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Cunning Sparkmage

[ChrisCunningham]

SfM-less builds

If all the grindy decks move to removal spells that kill our equipment just as easily as our creatures, it is definitely worth considering.

If the fast decks are everywhere and cause us to board out the whole SFM package too often, it is definitely worth considering.

I don't feel like either of those are the current situation, but cool to see. My dream is still blue taxes curving SotL into Clique.

Edit: On stream he is also getting a lot of points from people just being on autopilot from playing against the "standard" lists. Blind Therapy naming SFM, etc. Super fun to watch.

[redtwister]

I like the idea, and going up to 4 Flickerwisp/4 Serra Avenger/4 Vryn Wingmare actually make the aerial beats more effective.

I am not sure about the following:
- 0 main deck removal. The removal does not have to be spells, it could be creatures.
- 0 Phyrexian Revoker. This card feels really strong against a lot of decks, but also an easy drop against other decks to make room for sideboard cards.
- 1 Magus of the Moon. I kind of still want 2 main, though that is tougher with Avenger.
- Haven't been thrilled with Daredevil. Not in a "Ben Affleck Daredevil" bad kind of way, but just a bit where it runs hot or cold in a sideboard card kind of way.

[Bahra]

I played 2 leagues today, both 4-1 and really a tough loss to swallow in the very last match of the second league where I had about 5 turns to draw anything relevant and drew it on the turn I was dead.

Okay so I'll explain the thoughts behind this version of the deck, so you can try to understand my card choices and the reason why I believe this kind of build can be really good at this point in the meta.

First of all a few observations of the meta:

1. People play main deck artifact removal, almost as much as they play regular removal (which they play a lot of)
2. A lot of decks run discard spells, and an especially brutal one - Cabal Therapy - is extremely effective against D&T and particularly Stoneforge Mystic
3. The combo decks of this meta are super streamlined and well equipped to beating a regular semi-hateful D&T deck with flex slots mainly dedicated to brainless beaters
4. Swords to Plowshares fails to deal with the biggest threats of a majority of decks, and even the decks they are supposed to shine against, they once again fall short in dealing with the biggest issues

Then a few observations about D&T specifically:

1. D&T is slower than it has been for years, there's a lot of ways to lose tempo and very few to regain it in current builds
2. Stoneforge Mystic seems to be the biggest offender when it comes to losing tempo, often requiring a 6 mana investment for a solid return but easily dealt with completely by 1-2 cards at 2-3 total mana
3. Swords to Plowshares is often boarded out, so often that I would argue it should never have 4 copies in the main deck
4. The cards we count on in D&T often create fragile board states and/or gets easily x for 1'd by opponent's sideboard cards

So if we assume that these observations are ALL accurate, what is the next step? (I'm only gonna talk about the main deck here, as the sideboard might still need a lot of work)

Let's reduce the amount of mana intensive cards, lets reduce the amount of artifacts, and lets reduce the amount of ineffective spot removal.

Bring Rishadan Port back to its former glory by freeing up some mana and let's up the tax!

1. -4 Stonerforge Mystic -3 Equipments
2. -4 Phyrexian Revoker
3. -4 Swords to Plowshares

That's a lot of cards. But also a lot of non-creatures, so let's up the creature count. And let's add creatures that doesn't need Sword of Fire & Ice to look scary.

The result as of now:

https://i.imgur.com/IrDdd42.jpg


Dire Fleet Daredevil is super solid, it functions mostly as a 3 drop to Ponder/Lightning Bolt/Fatal Push or similar. And that's good, I didn't realize how powerful Ponder was in D&T before this guy.
But sometimes it is absolutely nuts, flashing back Toxic Deluge to remove 2x Deathrite Shaman and 2x Baleful Strix to free up Serra Avenger to attack again. Flashing back Fiery Confluence to kill 3x Ensnaring Bridge vs. 8 moon stompy etc

Spirit of the Labyrinth I'm sure you're all familiar with, not the best but the occasional game winning anti-brainstorm play, attacks for 3 and shuts down Griselbrand, Jace etc. It deserves a playset so far in my opinion

Vryn Wingmare after a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is already a pretty terrifying board, attacking through True-Name Nemesis and trading with Delvers is nice too

Thalia, Heretic Cathar is something that I've missed, a complete back breaker against Sneak and Show and something I can play in the main deck, with little Thalia it presents 5 power first strike on the defense which is super relevant vs. Eldrazi and sometimes Gurmag Angler as well

Hallowed Spiritkeeper is one I had to go to gatherer to dig up, only a few decks play Swords to Plowshares in this meta, and all the ones that don't - and are still trying to kill our creatures - are terrified of Hallowed Spiritkeeper. Picture True-Name Nemesis with Vigilance and resilience to sweepers

That's about it for the "odd" includes, I think the deck makes a lot of sense right now, it'll quickly die off if people start to put a lot of Dread of Night in their sideboards, but the rest of the hate is not strong enough to deal with this configuration in my experience.

[Medea_]

@Bahra

That was a great writeup. I guess I should probably help you do a little testing with that decklist. I'm not really convinced that the sideboard is good either. I'll try to give a little thought over the weekend. I'm not necessarily sold on Mindbreak Trap, Surgical #3, Cunning Sparkmage, and Wilt-Leaf Liege. I'd like to see a second Magus in the 75. I think a third Path or a first StP might be better than Cunning Sparkmage.

[colo]

You should also consider Knight of the Holy Nimbus. Flanking is awesome (attacks through True-Name Nemesis), and so is being virtually unkillable under a recent tax reform (read: increase). I like it very much.

[Lord Darkview]

I find a lot of this discussion really interesting and intuitive. I don't necessarily see that StP has become useless (it still handles Delvers, DRS, and Pyromancers fine), but it is inadequate where Griselbrand, Emrakul, and TNN are concerned. OTOH, I don't know any 1-mana answer that is sufficient for all of these.

I definitely can sympathize with the issues relating to SFM and Equipment, though. The entire process requires between 4 and 7 mana, and often can be thwarted by a well-timed Bolt. I'm a little reluctant to go into battle without having the various edges equipment provides at my disposal, though.

I'm not sure that DFD quite makes up for that, though I certainly see a lot of advantages. First Strike improves the more of it you have, a red guy is immune to Dread of Night and similar things, and the ability to occasionally steal your opponent's Bolts, cantrips, and countermagic is nice. This is particularly powerful with Vial and Flickerwisp. It's also swingy though, and sometimes might not do anything, though the potential upside is huge, depending on the opponent. I don't think it's quite as fragile of a trick as has been indicated.

It's still daunting to me personally, especially as a pair of plateaus costs as much as the rest of the mana-base. I suppose I could budget-test with shock-lands. Meanwhile, I'm still testing with a standard list and having fun, though the weaknesses are apparent.

I'm sifting the card database to see if there are any other interesting EtB triggers that don't require a red splash that could fill the DFD role. Absent equipment, I'd like some other pump effect or disruptive effect. There really aren't a lot of great ones. Anafenza, KTS can be a lot of buffs, but often the counters won't land on the guy you want to swing with (buffing Mother of Runes is not the best thing). Alternatively, disruptive effects on creatures are nice but harder to come by in white. There's also the enchantment-route for pumps, which have the perks of countering Dread of Night, being harder to remove, and surviving Cataclysm, but they don't do much on their own.

PS: In personal news, my cardboard lands arrived and two of the Karakas look like high-quality counterfeits. Thankfully, I caught it within a day of their arrival. Everyone should always be on the lookout for counterfeits, even on newer cards.

[ChrisCunningham]

a pair of plateaus costs as much as the rest of the mana-base.
I picked up MP/HP Plateaus for $45 each at the last SCG event that look fine; they are certainly easier to get than Caverns.

[Lord Darkview]

I picked up MP/HP Plateaus for $45 each at the last SCG event that look fine; they are certainly easier to get than Caverns.

I got my two Caverns back in 2015 way before they really spiked up. I guess if I can get a pair of Plateaus for under $100, that's enough to try and run the deck with DFDs. At the least, I may grab some of the latter before they increase in price too much.

I went looking for mono-white cards that might have sufficiently interesting ETB effects to be worth considering, and came up short. There are variations on tap/detain effect, Fiend Hunter type effects, and a number of "kill attacker" type of effects. The latter are interesting, but aren't really an acceptable answer to Emrakul or TNN. Blade Splicer can also be rather interesting, but I don't think the ability to make additional copies with Flickerwisp is sufficiently powerful to make it a contender in Legacy.

Edit: Addendum: Thinking about this further, I'm not sure DFD is really key. Thalia HC and Wingmare do most of the core taxing. SotL helps close down blue decks and Griselbrand. Revoker can also deal with Griselbrand and some combo (while resisting Dread of Night), though it's not as good versus blue decks. DFD is really a gamble that the opponents are playing spells you want, which might pay in grindy matchups (where they have draw and removal we want) but is unlikely to help against combos.

It occurs to me that if the emphasis has transitioned to winning the attrition war, the Flagstones + Dust Bowl engine combines really well with Thalia HC, and could readily yield a commanding edge against some of the more controlling or grindy decks in the format. It folds to Price of Progress, but not any more so than the Wr build does.

All interesting food for thought.

Any thoughts on this equipment-less build?


Creature
4 Mother of Runes

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Phyrexian Revoker

1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Flickerwisp
1 Hallowed Spiritkeeper
2 Recruiter of the Guard
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Vryn Wingmare

2 Serra Avenger

Land
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Dust Bowl
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas
6 Plains
4 Rishadan Port

Artifact
4 Aether Vial

Instant
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sideboard
2 Containment Priest
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Holy Light
2 Path to Exile
2 Council's Judgment
2 Cataclysm
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

[Mannaus]

Hello,
I'm not a big-fan of the SFM-less decks, but why not.
Concerning your build:
- I would not play the Flagstones of Trokair/Dust Bowl at all. One of the main strengths of WW build is mana stability. Here, you expose yourself to Wasteland, Blood Moon and Back to Basics way too much. Also, since the overall strategy relies heavily on 3 drops, Flagstones can be quite awkward. Depending on your meta (if there are a lot of Grixis Delver's and Miracles), you could consider playing 2 Cavern of Souls, although it would require straighten the build a little, in order to consider more humans.
- Speaking of humans, I would definitely play Mirran Crusader. If there are a lot of taxing components in the build, it lacks some straight opposition to cheap/efficient removal. like Fatal Push or Abrupt Decay. It will also re-balance a little some matchups that lose a lot of percentage without SFM (Maverick, BUG Control; Team America ... ).
- I would also consider Sanctum Prelate, for 2/3 cards combo matchups, like Sneak and Show, or Storm, and she's human, thus synergizes well with Cavern. Palace Jailer would also fit quite well.

I really am curious about Spirit of the Labyrinth tough. Is it really consistent? I mean, okay it gets the sometimes funny 2 cards off one's hand out of Vial in response to Brainstorm, but otherwise? I think a Grixis Delver player would care much more about a SFM on the board than a Spirit, in most circumstances. There were SFM fetching Batter would be an absolute must answer threat, the Spirit seems a little lackluster. But I didn't try it out, so I am eager to hear about it.

[Lord Darkview]

I also generally prefer the SFM builds, as I think they're pretty flexible and have a lot of staying power. This is my stock DnT list (https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/2155-death-taxes) that I'm using right now, and it contains many of the cards you mentioned.

The SFM-less build was posted in response to some of the ideas put forward by Bahra on the bottom of the last page. Specifically, if you have a meta that either (a) packs enough artifact removal, (b) answers SFM with Cabal Therapy, or (c) simply combos out too fast for equipment to really have an impact, you may want an SFM-less alternative. If that's not your situation, than SFM is probably still the way to go.

I will point out that the Flagstones + Dust Bowl land set is not really more vulnerable to Wasteland than Caverns and Plains, but you're certainly correct about B2B and BM (as I implied when point out PoP). Most of the decks you're trying to beat with this build aren't likely to be backing BM or B2B, though.

[Moctzal]

I also generally prefer the SFM builds, as I think they're pretty flexible and have a lot of staying power. This is my stock DnT list (https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/2155-death-taxes) that I'm using right now, and it contains many of the cards you mentioned.

The SFM-less build was posted in response to some of the ideas put forward by Bahra on the bottom of the last page. Specifically, if you have a meta that either (a) packs enough artifact removal, (b) answers SFM with Cabal Therapy, or (c) simply combos out too fast for equipment to really have an impact, you may want an SFM-less alternative. If that's not your situation, than SFM is probably still the way to go.

I will point out that the Flagstones + Dust Bowl land set is not really more vulnerable to Wasteland than Caverns and Plains, but you're certainly correct about B2B and BM (as I implied when point out PoP). Most of the decks you're trying to beat with this build aren't likely to be backing BM or B2B, though.

Running Stoneforge Mystic is likely a necessary evil for D&T to combat other creature matchups, and control matchups. Yes, equipment is mana intensive, but the repeatable value they generate isn’t really replaceable. Being able to remove creatures each turn with Jitte, draw cards, remove creatures, make every idiot a game ending threat with SoFaI, and stabilize with Batterskull are things we can’t really replace, and Stoneforge is a tutor we can deploy off Vial to find the specific type of equipment need for each particular situation. Yes sometime it gets blown out by cards like Kolghan’s Command, but despite that card, equipment is still good against Kommand decks, because when they don’t have it, equipment generates such massive advantage.

Flagstones being hit Wasteland at key times (like during your upkeep) does make them more vulnerable than a basic plains though, and they also make you weaker to Price of Progress. They’re by no means a free-roll. Running Dust Bowl over Cavern further pressures already stressed white mana for 1WW creatures as well, making your mana less consistent in comparison.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/dom/cards/danithacapashenparagon.jpg

A new toy to play with. Although the 3-drop slots are already crowded.

[Mad Mat]

Played a 33 man tourney yesterday. Lost in the finals to sneaky show. He had show and tell emrakul both times and I did not have karakas. Game 1 he went off turn 3, despite uncounterable thalia. Game 2 he went off turn 1, dodging my planned sequence of vial -> cavern thalia + mom -> prelate. It just happens somedays, although I can't really complain as I managed to beat steel stompy in spite of the terrible odds.

Pontiff was amazing all day; a haunted judge's familiar even took a noble hierarch with it after chump blocking. I tried Restoration Angel as a fun card from the side, but never saw it all day (I boarded it in against the delver lists). Maybe I'll just put the Jailer back in, as at least he's recruitable and I missed a removal guy in that spot. I also wonder whether I'd want to keep in a single revoker against grixis delver, as a bunch of my game losses were to deathrite shaman drains I could have avoided if I had a revoker to recruit. Also an argument in favor of Rest in Peace again, I guess, but there's already five must board-ins there that ain't leaving the sideboard soon.

My combo hate did nothing all day, but there was also lands (RIP, prelate, kambal), moon stompy (prelate, kambal) and reanimator (rip) in top 8. Kambal was there mostly as a difficult-to-answer threat for grixis-based midrange and miracles, which might actually be on the decline, so maybe they can change into more generic slots as well. Again an argument in favor of jailer. If only there were something like P&K for BW...

R1: Grixis delver 2-1
R2: Infect 2-1
R3: Big eldrazi 2-1
R4: Grixis delver 1-2
R5: UB delver 2-0
R6: ID
QF: Steel stompy 2-0
HF: Grixis delver 2-1
F: Sneaky show 0-2

23 LANDS
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
3 Karakas
4 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
2 Scrubland
4 Wasteland

27 CREATURES
4 Flickerwisp
2 Judge's Familiar
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Mother of Runes
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate

2 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Swords to Plowshares
7 OTHER SPELLS
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

SIDEBOARD
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Restoration Angel
1 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sanctum Prelate

possible changes:
-2 Kambal
-1 Restoration Angel
+3 ?

Boarding:

-Grixis:
out=2 revoker, 1 mirran, 1 thalia, 2 familiar
in=1 path, 1 alliance, 1 pontiff, 2 council, 1 angel

-Infect:
out=2 revoker, 2 mirran, 1 skull, 1 stoneforge, 1 thalia, 2 avenger
in=1 alliance, 2 council, 2 canonist, 1 relic-warder, 1 pontiff, 1 path, 1 needle

-big eldrazi:
out=3 mother of runes, 2 judge's familiar
in=2 council, 1 alliance, 1 path, 1 angel (+ should have also been needle, in retrospect)

-UB delver:
out=2 revoker, 1 thalia, 2 familiar
in=1 path, 1 alliance, 2 council, 1 angel

-steel stompy:
out=3 mother of runes, 2 judge's familiar, 1 prelate, 2 thalia
in=1 path, 1 alliance, 2 council, 1 relic-warder, 1 pontiff, 1 needle, 1 angel

-sneaky show:
out=4 swords to plowshares, 2 mirran crusader, 1 jitte, 1 pontiff, 1 stoneforge
in=2 canonist, 2 council, 1 needle, 2 kambal, 1 relic-warder, 1 prelate,

[Bahra]

http://mythicspoiler.com/dom/cards/danithacapashenparagon.jpg

A new toy to play with. Although the 3-drop slots are already crowded.

I can't see ever playing this card, it's straight up terrible.

By the way I 5-0'd with my list without sfm and stp today. Played against 4c leovold, 4c leovold, grixis delver, turbo depths, BR reanimator.

And also I want to add that I think the 10th list in SCG cincinatti is extremely bad. 1 Revoker 1 canonist 1 containment priest main deck, 3 flickerwisp... WHY??? And don't even get me started about the sideboard. He basically took mono white D&T and butchered it completely.

[Lord Darkview]

I really wanted Danitha to be good, but she either costs :1: too much, has one point of power too few, or both. Also, casting cost reduction doesn't help as much as an equipment cost reduction might, and auras are still way too fragile.

Also, looking at that 10th place list (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=119768), it's pretty clear what he was trying to do: he played a bunch of cards that are super powerful in specific matchups and situations as silver bullets, along with three Recruiters to find them. Personally, I think it's a bit slow and fragile, and sacrifices the arsenal of better creatures too much, but it's certainly not the craziest idea I've ever seen.

Edit: Addendum: Also, one counterfeit Wasteland detected. Really unusual: rosette visible in picture, but text box was just a diamond dot layout (every other land has the rosette throughout the card). The vendor is being pretty good about fixing this, so far.

[ChrisCunningham]

Also, looking at that 10th place list (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=119768), it's pretty clear what he was trying to do: he played a bunch of cards that are super powerful in specific matchups and situations as silver bullets, along with three Recruiters to find them. Personally, I think it's a bit slow and fragile, and sacrifices the arsenal of better creatures too much, but it's certainly not the craziest idea I've ever seen.
Having a lot of 1-ofs at CMC 2 and a lot of recruiters means your primary gameplan can be T1 vial, T3 uncounterable Recruiter and bomb 2drop from the vial.

But yea, having maindeck Containment Priest while shaving Flickerwisp is pretty insane. If you have Containment Priests in your deck, you want to play like 9 Flickerwisp.

This is the problem with our deck though; without card selection, we have high variance, so we can make poor deck choices and never draw the poor choices.

[Finn]

The biggest problem Danita has is Stoneforge Mystic existing. Assuming you have Batterskull in your sixty, SFM is just a way better card in every way. And it is senseless to have both.

[Lord Darkview]

So, this may seem like a silly question, but do we have a game plan against Burn with the more current lists? The only thing I can come up with is, "try not to take too much early damage, stick a Prelate on CMC=1, hope to not die to PoP and Fireblast before you close it out." Is this as bad as my gut says it is? And if so, what should we consider doing if we expect a field of 10% or so Burn?

[Bosque]

So, this may seem like a silly question, but do we have a game plan against Burn with the more current lists? The only thing I can come up with is, "try not to take too much early damage, stick a Prelate on CMC=1, hope to not die to PoP and Fireblast before you close it out." Is this as bad as my gut says it is? And if so, what should we consider doing if we expect a field of 10% or so Burn?

Try to play around PoP (open wastelands, holding back nonbasics if need be), be prepared to use StP on your own dudes, Prelate is pretty good, Jitte can gain life, Thalia slows them down, as would Canonist. If you have a lot of burn, there's always CoP:Red, Warmth and Kor Firewalker.

[Finn]

You can outplay Burn. He can not let you untap with Mystic. Try to get him to use his bolts on other creatures that seem inportant: Mother of Runes, Thalia, etc. They don’t have good library manipulation, so once they are out of good spot removal, they have to hard draw into more. Not all of theirs is instant speed. An eot Mystic off Vial can bring Batterskull or let you equip and attack with a Jitte. Tap Vial even when you have nothing to vial in. And yeah, keep STP at the ready.

[AsmodeusDM]

And also I want to add that I think the 10th list in SCG cincinatti is extremely bad. 1 Revoker 1 canonist 1 containment priest main deck, 3 flickerwisp... WHY??? And don't even get me started about the sideboard. He basically took mono white D&T and butchered it completely.

I agree completely; saw this list and was like "WTF???"

OTOH...

I am very eager to try out an SFM-Equipment-less build... I always feel that I'm locked into casting SFM on T2 and then hoping I get there 2 turns later... and that's all assuming that they dont' just kill my SFM or let me play out a jitte or SoFI and just kill the equip target.... basically without Mother on board and active going for SFM/Equipment/Equip is a complete crap-shoot... and it's SOOO SLOW.. Nowadays I find myself cutting 1-2 pieces of equipment everytime I board anyways and then cutting 2-3 SFMs. The exception is vs. Delver; but at the same time I know they are bringing in their artifact removal sideboard so I feel like I'm just walking into their sideboard plans and they can wait until I've invested 6+ mana trying to get something going before blowing me out completely :(

[AsmodeusDM]

You can outplay Burn. He can not let you untap with Mystic. Try to get him to use his bolts on other creatures that seem inportant: Mother of Runes, Thalia, etc. They don’t have good library manipulation, so once they are out of good spot removal, they have to hard draw into more. Not all of theirs is instant speed. An eot Mystic off Vial can bring Batterskull or let you equip and attack with a Jitte. Tap Vial even when you have nothing to vial in. And yeah, keep STP at the ready.

My Legacy teammate in Cinci this past weekend (I got stuck playing standard) played Burn and game prepared to win vs. D&T... he claims to have a 75%+ winrate on mtgo... and in some quick tests he went 4-1 vs me on D&T (2-0 G1's, 2-1 G2's)... He played 3 Grim Lavamancer's and 2 Firebolts in the main (for D&T, DRS, and Delvers).

[Curby]

Is Prelate on 1 vs Burn actually correct? It turns off our Swords for gaining life, and only hits 12 of their spells since their creatures aren't stopped by Prelate. Post-board they'll have at least 4 Searing Blooze and 3 Smash to Smithereens in addition to the Prices, which in addition to doing at least as much damage as a Bolt also often represent card advantage.

EDIT: They're also more likely to have cast their 1-drops by the time Prelate arrives on turn 3-4.

[Lord Darkview]

That's an interesting point. Prelate on CMC=1 turns off 12 spells, 8 of which could be used to kill the Prelate; CMC=2 hits fewer spells, but they include Price of Progress and (especially post-board), Smash to Smithereens and Searing B. spells. CMC=3 will prevent Rift Bolt and Sulfuric Vortex.

I think the counter strategies suggested are helpful. I tended to undervalue SFM because of the power of Vortex and artifact removal, but I realize that 1-2 hits with Jitte or Batterskull can easily push us out of reach.

I don't think the matchup is favorable, but in light of how much resource-trading we force them to do and the fact that they either need to answer the lifegain or lose, it's not nearly so daunting.

[EronRelentless]

Is Prelate on 1 vs Burn actually correct? It turns off our Swords for gaining life, and only hits 12 of their spells since their creatures aren't stopped by Prelate. Post-board they'll have at least 4 Searing Blooze and 3 Smash to Smithereens in addition to the Prices, which in addition to doing at least as much damage as a Bolt also often represent card advantage.

EDIT: They're also more likely to have cast their 1-drops by the time Prelate arrives on turn 3-4.

Preboard it is absolutely correct to name 1 unless you hold two Swords to Plowshares in your hand, because you hit the most efficient cards with it and you limit their plays with your Ports and Thalia anyways. In Postborde Games I think priority Number one is to protect your Equipments so then I would play it on 2.

[EronRelentless]

I am thinking about the fact if Path to Exile isn't better than Swords to Plowshares in the current Meta. Some Decks don't even play Basic Lands or the Lifegain can be really relevant against Reanimator or Marit Lage Decks. On the other Hand if you are playing against Creature light Decks you can Path your own Creature to improve your Mana and the ability to use Equipments.

Here is a short overview with the common Matchups were I think which Removal Spell is better:

Grixis Delver (15%): Path to Exile (preventing the opponent to get 3 to 5 life is really valuable for racing, but the drawback can be the 'free shuffle')
4C Leovold (7%): Even (Ramping with Removal on your own Creature is okay, but sometimes the lifegain can sum up as well)
Death and Taxes (5%): Swords to Plowshares (lifegain is unimportant most of the time but the free Plains is a real disadvantage)
Miracles (5%): Path to Exile (you more likely to Ramp yourself which improves Ports and Equipments)
Lands (5%): Path to Exile (20 Life for a Marit Lage, no thanks)
Sultai Delver (4%): Path to Exile (same as Grixis Delver)
Moon Stompy (3%): Swords to Plowshares (they play a lot of Mountains and the Creatures usually have 2-3 Power)
Elves (3%): Swords to Plowshares (same as Death and Taxes but Forest)
ANT (3%): Swords to Plowshares (Lifegain can ruin Storm Counts)
Sneak and Show (3%): Path to Exile (Path limits the Advantage of a Griselbrand)
Eldrazi Stompy (2,5%): Path to Exile (they usually don't play Wastes in their Deck and 4-5 Life can make a difference of one Turn)
Turbo Depths (2,5%): Path to Exile (20 Life for a Marit Lage, no thanks)
Reanimator (2,5%): Path to Exile (the extra Land can give the opponent an advantage for future Reanimations but the lifegain usually gives 2 free Turns)
Deathblade (2,5%): Swords to Plowshares (some lists don't play Basic Lands but the Creatures you kill usually only bring 1 Life anyway)

If you sum up each Percentage in the Meta (according to actual MTGGoldfish Data of winning Decks) we have about 40% for Path to Exile but just 16,5% for Swords to Plowshares.

Thoughts?

[Marungo]

I am thinking about the fact if Path to Exile isn't better than Swords to Plowshares in the current Meta. Some Decks don't even play Basic Lands or the Lifegain can be really relevant against Reanimator or Marit Lage Decks. On the other Hand if you are playing against Creature light Decks you can Path your own Creature to improve your Mana and the ability to use Equipments.

Here is a short overview with the common Matchups were I think which Removal Spell is better:

Grixis Delver (15%): Path to Exile (preventing the opponent to get 3 to 5 life is really valuable for racing, but the drawback can be the 'free shuffle')
4C Leovold (7%): Even (Ramping with Removal on your own Creature is okay, but sometimes the lifegain can sum up as well)
Death and Taxes (5%): Swords to Plowshares (lifegain is unimportant most of the time but the free Plains is a real disadvantage)
Miracles (5%): Path to Exile (you more likely to Ramp yourself which improves Ports and Equipments)
Lands (5%): Path to Exile (20 Life for a Marit Lage, no thanks)
Sultai Delver (4%): Path to Exile (same as Grixis Delver)
Moon Stompy (3%): Swords to Plowshares (they play a lot of Mountains and the Creatures usually have 2-3 Power)
Elves (3%): Swords to Plowshares (same as Death and Taxes but Forest)
ANT (3%): Swords to Plowshares (Lifegain can ruin Storm Counts)
Sneak and Show (3%): Path to Exile (Path limits the Advantage of a Griselbrand)
Eldrazi Stompy (2,5%): Path to Exile (they usually don't play Wastes in their Deck and 4-5 Life can make a difference of one Turn)
Turbo Depths (2,5%): Path to Exile (20 Life for a Marit Lage, no thanks)
Reanimator (2,5%): Path to Exile (the extra Land can give the opponent an advantage for future Reanimations but the lifegain usually gives 2 free Turns)
Deathblade (2,5%): Swords to Plowshares (some lists don't play Basic Lands but the Creatures you kill usually only bring 1 Life anyway)

If you sum up each Percentage in the Meta (according to actual MTGGoldfish Data of winning Decks) we have about 40% for Path to Exile but just 16,5% for Swords to Plowshares.

Thoughts?
The problem with this thinking is that when plow is “bad” it’s barely noticeable. When path is bad, it’s awful. You’re mana denying 4c. Then you path something. Well done. Your plan has gone to shit.

[vtml1984]

I am heading the Seattle and trying to get my sideboard in order. I am expecting a ton of blue grindy decks and delver. I have most of my side board set. I am playing mono white with either 3 crusader and a big Thalia (or brimaz) or 4 crusaders. Here is what my side board looks like right now:

2 cataclysm
2 path to exile
3 rest in peace
1 relic warden
1 sanctum prelate
2 ethersworn
1 containment priest
2 council judgement

I have o e spot where I have tried a few things: 3rd path and recuiter of the guard. Both were good, but then I tried restoration angel. Thing was great, I could just keep either a recuiter or a path in the board and drop ancrusader/brimaz/big Thalia from the main there. Or just keep the main board and not play the resto. From my testing brimaz and resto have really helped my delver match up with out Serra’s. The nice thing is both require a two for one to remove and brimaz is a nice counter to pyro and resto gives me an out to delver and races a truename. Further both seem good in the 4c match as well. I was able to prevent my guy dying thanks to karakas (after the match my opponent was like that damn thing blanked my edicts. Just having more bodies in that matched seems to help. But I am not sold and would like advice. Also, is there any way to shore up the miracles match? If that gets big post DRS ban?

[Finn]

Marungo, that is entirely true and irritating about Path. You have to know your opponent’s deck quite well to risk it. How many basics is this guy playing? How many are on the table so far? Why did he just fetch Volcanic when I am showing Wasteland? etc. There really is not any other removal that is nearly as good, so the risk is often worth it. The way we marginalize that risk is by doing what DnT players do: we study the format, pay attention to games, and outmaneuver our opponent.

[_WD40_]

Phil,

Thanks for your stream....saw your ridiculous Soldier Stompy and been testing it last night and today. I made some slight changes to main deck and board from your list, but it has been a beast for me in the current meta. Soldier Stompy tier 1? Haha....maybe not, but it has been rolling over decks for me. And I have mainly been testing vs tier 1 decks.

Anyway thanks again,
WD40

[_WD40_]

Here are the few changes I made:


4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Palace Jailer
4 Preeminent Captain
4 Daru Warchief
4 Enlistment Officer
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Fairgrounds Warden
4 Ballyrush Banneret
4 Suppression Field
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Karakas
6 Plains

4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Holy Light
3 Disenchant
2 Armageddon

[Medea_]

That stream was a blast. Here's the link to the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag485bHTw4I&t=60s) for anyone who missed it. Those were some of the more interesting and unusual games of Legacy I've played in ages.

I don't want to derail conversation too much, but I don't think Bannaret is worth the card slots. It's a low impact card on its own, and since a bunch of your more expensive cards are WW, it doesn't actually accelerate you all that much unless you have multiple copies. I think the Responders are probably more important to help the Delver matchups and balance life life from Ancient Tomb.

Edit: @vtml1984

That sideboard is fine. The last maindeck slot doesn't matter all that much, so do a little testing and play what seems right to you. The metagame might shift a tiny bit between now and your event, so you might end up making small tweak anyway. I like THC the least of the options you presented though.

[Finn]

I am thinking about the fact if Path to Exile isn't better than Swords to Plowshares in the current Meta. Some Decks don't even play Basic Lands or the Lifegain can be really relevant against Reanimator or Marit Lage Decks. On the other Hand if you are playing against Creature light Decks you can Path your own Creature to improve your Mana and the ability to use Equipments.

Here is a short overview with the common Matchups were I think which Removal Spell is better:

Grixis Delver (15%): Path to Exile (preventing the opponent to get 3 to 5 life is really valuable for racing, but the drawback can be the 'free shuffle')
4C Leovold (7%): Even (Ramping with Removal on your own Creature is okay, but sometimes the lifegain can sum up as well)
Death and Taxes (5%): Swords to Plowshares (lifegain is unimportant most of the time but the free Plains is a real disadvantage)
Miracles (5%): Path to Exile (you more likely to Ramp yourself which improves Ports and Equipments)
Lands (5%): Path to Exile (20 Life for a Marit Lage, no thanks)
Sultai Delver (4%): Path to Exile (same as Grixis Delver)
Moon Stompy (3%): Swords to Plowshares (they play a lot of Mountains and the Creatures usually have 2-3 Power)
Elves (3%): Swords to Plowshares (same as Death and Taxes but Forest)
ANT (3%): Swords to Plowshares (Lifegain can ruin Storm Counts)
Sneak and Show (3%): Path to Exile (Path limits the Advantage of a Griselbrand)
Eldrazi Stompy (2,5%): Path to Exile (they usually don't play Wastes in their Deck and 4-5 Life can make a difference of one Turn)
Turbo Depths (2,5%): Path to Exile (20 Life for a Marit Lage, no thanks)
Reanimator (2,5%): Path to Exile (the extra Land can give the opponent an advantage for future Reanimations but the lifegain usually gives 2 free Turns)
Deathblade (2,5%): Swords to Plowshares (some lists don't play Basic Lands but the Creatures you kill usually only bring 1 Life anyway)

If you sum up each Percentage in the Meta (according to actual MTGGoldfish Data of winning Decks) we have about 40% for Path to Exile but just 16,5% for Swords to Plowshares.

Thoughts?
You know, I did not see all of this at first. I did not realize you were considering Path over Swords. Don't ever do that. It has been tried, debated, tried, debated over the years. Swords to Plowshares is consistently the better card in real-world scenarios by a wide margin.

[Lord Darkview]

That stream was a blast. Here's the link to the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag485bHTw4I&t=60s) for anyone who missed it. Those were some of the more interesting and unusual games of Legacy I've played in ages.

That looks crazy. I've known for years Suppression field was busted, and it was cool to see it in action. I did a brief thought experiment on whether that could work into an SFM-less build, but it interferes too much with the rest of our mana denial plan to work well, I think.

How did you feel about Soldier Stompy vs DnT overall? You clearly had fun in the stream and indicated you prefer DnT, but didn't really qualify it (though some might be extracted from your thoughts on the SFM-less DnT list). Can you be more specific about the specific strengths and weaknesses of Soldier Stompy versus DnT?

[Medea_]

That looks crazy. I've known for years Suppression field was busted, and it was cool to see it in action. I did a brief thought experiment on whether that could work into an SFM-less build, but it interferes too much with the rest of our mana denial plan to work well, I think.

How did you feel about Soldier Stompy vs DnT overall? You clearly had fun in the stream and indicated you prefer DnT, but didn't really qualify it (though some might be extracted from your thoughts on the SFM-less DnT list). Can you be more specific about the specific strengths and weaknesses of Soldier Stompy versus DnT?

Soldier stompy is probably better against combo. It can turn 1 Thalia, THC, Suppression Field, Chalice, and Thorn. Some combination of those cards messes with your opponents enough to get there. D&T is going to be better against many fair fights; the equipment package, mana denial, and Flickerwisp give you much more game against the random stuff of the format.

[kombatkiwi]

The problem with this thinking is that when plow is “bad” it’s barely noticeable. When path is bad, it’s awful. You’re mana denying 4c. Then you path something. Well done. Your plan has gone to shit.

Same deal as why Spire of Industry is more popular in Modern Affinity than Glimmervoid
Like sure, maybe against Burn the majority of the time your Glimmervoid won't die and losing 1-2 life in the game is more relevant.
But is this worth the times when your only turn 1 play is Glimmervoid + Creature (in any matchup) and you autolose to Push/Bolt? No.
Overall 1 land is way more important than a few extra life points

[Lord Darkview]

Soldier stompy is probably better against combo. It can turn 1 Thalia, THC, Suppression Field, Chalice, and Thorn. Some combination of those cards messes with your opponents enough to get there. D&T is going to be better against many fair fights; the equipment package, mana denial, and Flickerwisp give you much more game against the random stuff of the format.

Thanks. That matches what I suspected about relative strengths, though I was having trouble putting into words why. It's interesting to compare the two, since they are simultaneously both so similar and different.

That stream was a lot of fun to watch. If I hadn't already been in on DnT, I might have looked to that deck instead. Thankfully, my love of equipment, individually powerful creatures, and Cataclysm trumps my desire to play a more straightforward aggro deck.

[redtwister]

@Bahra
I really like the list and am going to start testing it locally. I was in New Mexico, so didn't see the last video until now, but the list seems more tuned.

Some maybe quick questions:
1. Have you played against Burn? If so, are 4 TGoT + 4 Wingmare feeling good? I don't play against Burn often, but I seem to face it 2x in my first 5 rounds every Open/GP in Baltimore.
2a. How is the DnT mirror? Is that helped significantly by 2x Pontiff, even without Revoker?
2b. Somewhat related, as traditional DnT is sort of a SfM deck, how do you feel about matches versus SfM decks with this build since you don't have Revoker or Pithing Needle?
3. Why PtE instead of StP in the sideboard? Is it the matches where you want it too often result in massive lifegain for limited results?
4. Do you want another spot for a 2nd Mindbreak Trap for Turn 1/2 combo decks other than Reanimator?
5. I want a 2nd Magus main, but what gets dropped? I think it is Daredevil -1 because isn't that card a bit tough to get value on with all the non-creature spells cost +1?

[Bahra]

@Bahra
I really like the list and am going to start testing it locally. I was in New Mexico, so didn't see the last video until now, but the list seems more tuned.

Some maybe quick questions:
1. Have you played against Burn? If so, are 4 TGoT + 4 Wingmare feeling good? I don't play against Burn often, but I seem to face it 2x in my first 5 rounds every Open/GP in Baltimore.
2a. How is the DnT mirror? Is that helped significantly by 2x Pontiff, even without Revoker?
2b. Somewhat related, as traditional DnT is sort of a SfM deck, how do you feel about matches versus SfM decks with this build since you don't have Revoker or Pithing Needle?
3. Why PtE instead of StP in the sideboard? Is it the matches where you want it too often result in massive lifegain for limited results?
4. Do you want another spot for a 2nd Mindbreak Trap for Turn 1/2 combo decks other than Reanimator?
5. I want a 2nd Magus main, but what gets dropped? I think it is Daredevil -1 because isn't that card a bit tough to get value on with all the non-creature spells cost +1?

1. Yes but only a few times, I'm undefeated in 2-3 matches. The mana denial is super strong, and blanking their smash to smithereens is extremely good as they tend to board it in and I guess it's a card that makes them keep mediocre hands. Dire Fleet Daredevil is insane as well.
2a. I'll be honest, it's not good in game 1. Game 2 & 3 I feel extremely favored though, I'd say I'm probably favored across the match but that's easy to say, so take it with a grain of salt.
2b. Which stoneforge decks exists besides D&T?
3. PtE because the match ups where I want it, either the basic doesn't matter or they don't have them. I mainly board it in against Eldrazi, Delver, Turbo depths, reanimator. I do board them in in the mirror where they are a liability but I feel like the upside of no life gain in the other match ups, is more important in the big picture.
4. I don't know it's hard to make room for it, I want the mirror to be good, but this version is way better against fast combo, though still pretty bad probably.
5. hmmmmm, I don't think it's right to play more than 1 magus, it's super good in certain match ups, but it doesn't fit the plan of having efficient beaters that present a clock from very early in the game. If you had to then probably Daredevil but I wouldn't do it personally.

[redtwister]

Thanks for the replies.



2b. Which stoneforge decks exists besides D&T?


Bant Stoneblade and Deathblade still see some play, though not like they used to.

[Mannaus]

Hello everybody,
I went 4-3 at an 80 people Legacy event on saturday, playing the RW Dire fleet Daredevil version. I went greedy and added 2 Orzhov Pontiff in the side, just castable on Caverns and Vials. I thought I would share a few thoughts on how it went down.

Round 1: versus WW DnT. Game 1 he drew the best part of his deck, with Vial/jitte and 3 Flickerwisps. Could not do much. Game 2 went a little longer, but in the end he connected with Jitte, and I was out of the game. It also felt actually bad to have to path to exile twice in the early game, giving him an edge in the land counts. But I guess that's variance. I didn't see any of my red cards. We both had pontiffs, I saw mine but they were too little too late. It always feel a little bad to be paired versus other DnT players, as we're only the few of us. My opponent went on to top8, which is great! And then he got paired versus the Elves player in 1/4 finals...
Lost 2-0
Round 2: versus Man of Steel, or Steel Stompy. Never played this matchup, and it just felt horrible. Game 1 he went out big, by turn 5 or 6 he had multiple bodies with 3+ power, I was overwhelmed. Game 2 I got there with some combination of Flickers and Thalia's. Game 3, I felt the real power of Arcbound Ravager. He went on a massive out with 3 of those and Walking Ballista. Was never even close. Magus of the Moon and the overall mana denial strategy is not good in the matchup. The only relevant cards seem to be Flicker and Revoker, plus spot removal, but they usually eat Chalice on 1 as well. Difficult matchup, I hope this deck does not see too much play further down the road haha.
Lost 2-1
Round 3: versus Monoblue TNN deck. This was a weird deck, with snapcasters only there to flash ponder's and spell snare's. But it still encompassed 4 TNN, 2 Jitte and 2 SFi, which was an absolute nightmare. Game 1 I couldn't race. Game 2&3, I won but by a slight margin, and only thanks to the 2 Pontiff's, which did an amazing job. The caverns felt great as well, as his plan seemed to be to counter everything and then slam TNN. I also must dedicate one of the wins to the Daredevil, which flashed a ponder and found me the Pontiff I absolutely needed to get rid of 2 TNN's threatening lethal. It was the first time I saw the card that day.
Won 2-1
Round 4: versus Infect. Obviously, I got paired versus another very difficult matchup. The games went very close, and it was a lot of fun. I didn't see Magus, but Daredevil's first strike ability was great, plus he got me some free cards and game plan advantage casting Gitaxian Probe.
Lost 2-1
Round 5: versus Grixis Delver. I finally get paired versus a fair blue deck. And here the deck felt awesome. Magus cut my opponent off mana, Direfleet bolted Delvers, Cabal therapied pyromancers ... Fun matches, and I never felt overwhelmed, but in game 2, where I got "delvered", but this happens.
Won 2-1
Round 6: versus UW Miracles, encompassing Back to Basics maindeck. This matchup was really tricky. We went on to play very long games. Game 1, BtB and an overall 6 Swords to Plowshares were too much. Game 2, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar took over the game. Game 3, a combination of Vryn Wingmare and Thalia, plus Council Judgement's on BtB locked my opponent out of the game. It was the second time today that Vryn and Thalia felt really good (the other being versus Infect). Daredevil did get me some card advantage by flashing ponders, plus it being a 2/1 first strike for CMC 2 mattered. It got some hits alongside Thalia starting turn 3, putting some pressure on my opponent, which felt great.
Won 2-1
Round 7: versus Grixis Control. Here again, Magus of the Moon did the job, alongside DnT's usual gameplan of taxing into equipment, into hitting harder than the opponent. The games went smoothly, the deck felt great and I got some fun tricks out of Daredevil.
Won 2-0

Overall; Magus of the Moon feels great against most deck in the formats. It gives us some free wins, which is always welcome, plus it usually disrupt's our opponents' plans enough for us to take over the game with the other creatures/equipment. And even just the threat of Magus lead some opponents to agressively fetch their basics, or play around it, thus playing suboptimally, which is something no to underestimate in Legacy. I will definitely continue playing the RW version, as long as the metagame stays as greedy as it is (Deathrite Shaman, I'm looking at you).
Now, for Dire fleet Daredevil, well. The card is definitively surprising. It is great in all fair matchups, plus it can be a huge edge versus black combo decks (Storm) or Punishing fire decks. Now, not much that hadn't been said before; the card is by time clunky, or faces an empty graveyard, or Thalia tax, or Ethersworn cannonist on board, and so on. The card is, in my opinion, not consistent enough. Yet, as it is a lot of fun, and we deserve to have some, plus it fits rather well in the RW shell, I think I'll adopt it a little longer. I will give it the chance to either fully convince me, or fully prevent me from sleeving it anymore.
Orzhov Pontiff seems necessary as well. It's just such a clean answer to our real nemesis, TNN, and all the random x/1 cards that float around. It even was good versus Man of Steel. If everybody is getting greedy, maybe we should too, and up a little the number of caverns (go to 3) and play the Pontiff.
Also, Vryn Wingmare felt good all day long, so it'll stay in the main. I might consider a copy of Sanctum Prelate somewhere in the 75 tough, as it still is a better lock piece versus combo. Versus Infect for instance, Vryn was good, but Sanctum would have taken over the game, preventing my opponent to cast Invigorate.

[Lord Darkview]

I'm curious about the increasing prevalence of the following SB card array: 3x PtE, 3x RiP, 1x Containment Priest, and 1x Recruiter. I'm on 2x, 2x, 2x, and none, respectively.

I understand Recruiter acts as an extra copy of anything, which seems fine for Relic-Warder or Crusader, but far too slow for something like CP. Similarly, I see CP as very flexible for a lot of the same things as PtE or RiP might be (Reanimator, Elves, SnS, etc.).

Am I overvaluing CP, undervaluing RiP and PtE, or is this really just a metagame call?

Also, I've thoroughly digested the TU FAQ on Cataclysm vs Gideon AoZ. It leaves one with the impression that this is also a metagame call. But I was wondering if anyone has found that a specific builds works better with one versus the other (for instance: "In the 4x Crusader build, Cataclysm is always better," or something similar).

[Medea_]

I'm curious about the increasing prevalence of the following SB card array: 3x PtE, 3x RiP, 1x Containment Priest, and 1x Recruiter. I'm on 2x, 2x, 2x, and none, respectively.

I understand Recruiter acts as an extra copy of anything, which seems fine for Relic-Warder or Crusader, but far too slow for something like CP. Similarly, I see CP as very flexible for a lot of the same things as PtE or RiP might be (Reanimator, Elves, SnS, etc.).

Am I overvaluing CP, undervaluing RiP and PtE, or is this really just a metagame call?

Also, I've thoroughly digested the TU FAQ on Cataclysm vs Gideon AoZ. It leaves one with the impression that this is also a metagame call. But I was wondering if anyone has found that a specific builds works better with one versus the other (for instance: "In the 4x Crusader build, Cataclysm is always better," or something similar).

That's a change that I made. It's just a port of the sideboard I've been running in rw. People are copying it. I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that. The Recruiter is really there for matchups like Czech Pile with the *upside* that it's good in other places rather than explicitly trying to be extra copies of hate cards.

Generically, I'm liking Cata over Gideon right now.

[hill_giant]

That's a change that I made. It's just a port of the sideboard I've been running in rw. People are copying it. I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that. The Recruiter is really there for matchups like Czech Pile with the *upside* that it's good in other places rather than explicitly trying to be extra copies of hate cards.

Generically, I'm liking Cata over Gideon right now.
I haven't played cataclysm in ages. What matchups has it been great for?

[Coinman1863]

Hello all!

This past weekend I played in the TJ's Collectibles 1k at the DCU center and ended up placing second. Below is the link to the tourney report I wrote up.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j2h5vVPkM8jMWPd2lMtx325cUj0wOOBBTOyJkkia9Jc/edit?usp=sharing

Hope you all enjoy the tourney report and if you have any questions about the report, deck, or playstyle, please ask! I'll be happy to answer them.

[Finn]

That was a fun read. Your writing feels sincere, and you have a wonderfully clear manner of expression. Thanks for the link.

[Medea_]

Okay, I've raised an eyebrow at a new card (https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/29939442_10216657943100184_901781474_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=5e169cb958cc509f6943a792f4c4746e&oe=5AC574F9) now.

[Tylert]

Okay, I've raised an eyebrow at a new card (https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/29939442_10216657943100184_901781474_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=5e169cb958cc509f6943a792f4c4746e&oe=5AC574F9) now.

What would you play this against?
Turn 4 seems late against Storm.
Against discard decks it seems fine as it doesn't die to Fatal Push / Lightning bolt, however it's still 4 mana and coming after the turn 1/2 discard.
If you are playing it for the hexproof for creatures, i think that restoration angel is still better because it can be played from hand at instant speed and also can be used just to blink a value creature.
I like the fact that this card is available (Leyline of sanctity on steroids and on legs. Could be a one of in the side max. and i'm thinking more about the Zero main zero side :)

Maybe i'm too hard. Please proove me that i'm wrong :)

[Finn]

I bet it has more application in Modern. Thing is - is this card really better than what we have now? Thalia (main), Ethersworn Canonist (side), and a few others are really very effective. I mean, think of all of the things we don't use much at all and don't cost 4. If this thing protected itself, I might give it more room, but it has to be paired with something else or it is just a slow Seht's Tiger.

[DarthVicious]

... it has to be paired with something else...

It'd certainly make toys easier to attach, and free up a lot of Mom's time. She might bake more cookies then.

On another note, is anyone else trying out Stalking Leonin? He's like a 3/3 vigilance Royal Assassin.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Also, it doesn't stop Dread of Night, Massacre, Zealous Persecution, Pyroclasm, or any other "each/all creature(s)" effects we deal with. It's not good enough for me to play it.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Medea_]

@Egget

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/29871751_10155438052501547_4796568940052718681_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=24939b2ef72ce9fdc8565e0b3bd1a0d7&oe=5B284302

[Amagon]

I don't really post much but I've had an awesome night and wanted to share my excitement a bit.

So a bit of backround. I've played a little bit of Burn, B/R Reanimator, and U/R Delver in the past but A25 finally helped me build DnT. Since then I've watched ALL of Medea_' s streams and any other coverage I could find. I also borrowed a friend's DnT deck on Modo and have been practicing the past 2 weeks in preparation for a trial this weekend.

So I played in 5 leagues so far and at first I was bad. 1-4 and 0-5. then I got a bit of traction and for 3-2 back to back. Finally my efforts were rewarded when I got my first ever 5-0!

My list is the stock 4 crusader list on Thraben University but my SB was not optimal as I do not have all of the cards I'd have liked.

Creatures:
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sanctum Prelate
4 Mother of Runes
4 Flickerwisp
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants:
4 Swords to Plowshares

Artifacts:
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Land:
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
12 Plains

Sideboard:
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Council's Judgment
1 Pithing Needle
3 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Cataclysm


Match 1 was Elves...
G1 - I lost to an extremely fast craterhoof.
G2 - A combination of ethersworn canonist, needle, and Jit te got there.
G3 - My opponent mulled to 1 and conceeded.

Match 2 was R/G Lands
This one was a Modo win as the clock was the deciding factor.
G1 - This game went pretty well as thalia, mom and 3 total wisps got there.
G2 - This game went very very long but I ended up conceding to 3 Maze of Ith and pushing fire beats.
G3 - This game was heavily in my OP's favor but in the end he had 17 secs left and I cast cataclysm so he conceded. Not the best way to win but what can you do.

Match 3 was against Storm.
G1 - He got there with an empty for 12 and I was a little to late getting batterskull out.
G2 - Thalia, and ethersworn canonist got there.
G3 - I had a mom, thalia, and canonist out and my OP down to 7. he double bounces both and attempts to go off. he plays an Ad Nauseum and goes 1 but doesn't find the win and concedes.

Match 4 was Grixis Delver
TBH these are a bit of a blur
G1 - This game went long as we were both stalling whole mana screwed but flickerwisps ended up being the faster clock.
G2 - I answered a T3 True-name wth council's judgment and thalia and Jitte got there.

Match 5 also Grixis Delve
G1 - Thalia and 3 on board Crusaders was to much for him.
G2 - I was fairly aggressive but my OP stabilized with Gurmag, Young Pyromancer, and 3 Deathrites.
G3 - My OP was low on lands but had a flipped delver young finances, and two tokens on board while I had nothing but 4 lands and jitte on board and a wisp in hand. I played the wisp grtting rid of the token and equipped. I proceeded to pray that my OP ran out of bolts clearing my board. After a minute or two my prayers were answered and my opponent concedes!

So this is probably typed out horribly and a bit vague but I'm extremely proud and excited to try to it out this sunday.

[Medea_]

@amagon

Congrats! The first 5-0 means the most. Now that you've gotten that out of the way, try to tick up that trophy count! Here's a quote from a user who doesn't post much anymore, but it always stuck with me:

"I’m pretty new to the deck myself, having picked it up in April. Sometimes other players approach me and state their intention to try it out. I always tell them I spent my first 3 months with the deck losing. The deck is hard to play…It’s ultimately extremely rewarding, but until the Nirvana of owning the board with a few white creatures, an artifact, and a handful of lands can be reached, a lot of dues need to be paid." -MtG:Salvation user Lormador

[AsmodeusDM]

I've never read that quote but it really does sum up the real motivation behind playing D&T. I have a substantial Magic collection and friends will always ask me why I'm not playing Delver or S&S or whichever deck is the current "Deck to Beat". "It's Legacy!" they say "Why aren't you playing brainstorm? Force of will??"

There's just something about playing in a format with T2 Emrakuk's and T1 3/2 Flyers and you're playing with a bunch of grizzly bears beating 'em down for 2 to 5 each turn. For me... it's that moment, that happens against anyone who isn't an exceptionally grizzled legacy veteran, when they look down at the board of random top-tier draft cards and, astonished and confused, ask themselves "How did I possibly lose this game???"

[redtwister]

Been testing Bahra's build, wrote a long post and the server coughed and I lost it. Serves me right for not writing it in Notepad++ first.

I crushed Czech Pile against a solid player 4 games in a row. The build was really strong and it is one of those places where SotL really shines, since targeting Leovold on their turn gets them exactly nothing. We curve out similarly to them and then tax them.

I got crushed by Grixis Delver, going 2-5 and only winning with a resolved turn 1 Vial. their deck is much more streamlined and mana efficient, plus their Wastelands are much worse for us if they resolve DRS. The 5 losses were what I can best describe as "Deathrite Shamans Gone Wild: Spring Break in Cancun" edition. Not sure how Bahra has been doing versus that deck, would love to hear his assessment, but wow and ouch I took a beating. Please note, the opposing player is good, but is not a Legacy player and doesn't have much experience with Grixis Delver. He laughed at the end and said, "It felt like my choices, aside from knowing when to Brainstorm, fetch and Ponder, were pretty much on auto-pilot because I had so many powerful plays." He used my Grixis deck, which is a very standard current build and all games were in Game 1 mode, no sideboard. Obviously, 2 Pontiff and Sparkmage would shift the game quite a bit Games 2 and 3, but I don't feel good about Game 1 vs. the Grixis menace at all and if we can't reasonably fight that deck, well...

I have not played any combo decks yet.

However, now my inner deck builder is quite engaged and I am going to try some things locally with people and see where it goes.

Comments on the RW No-SfM build:
1. Thalia Heretic Cathar is not great in those matches, but combined with Daredevil or TGoT is our only defense against Gurmag. Seems great against creature combo (Show and Tell as much as against Elves), if you have it in hand.

2. Too many Serra Avenger. WW was still an issue and the lack of disruption was annoying. It was in my opening hand every damn game and that was not great.

3. SotL once again made me sad against Grixis Delver, but felt awesome against Pile. Also a great anti-Elves card.

4. Missed Cavern of Souls, but I always do.

5. No removal and no Revoker and no RiP felt super bad against Delver, hence the DRS Gone Wild comment.

6. Maybe the build needs either a couple removal spells or a couple Sanctum Prelate calling 1. I would happily trade the THC for the Prelate, even if it is not a good offensive card, especially w/o equipment.

7. Missed SfM and equipment against Grixis because otherwise they were doing more powerful things I could not get back from. Did not miss it at all against Pile and probably wouldn't miss it against any combo deck except Elves.

8. Wingmare was great if I could get it out and keep it alive. Stack em high, tax em high.

9. Daredevil really conflicts with TGoT/Wingmare/SotL. Too often it was a 2/1 first strike. When it is great, it is great and it is often your only access to removal, so I don't think you can not run it.

10. Never saw Hallowed Spiritkeeper, but I would have been happy to. When you have 5-6 creatures in your graveyard, it makes people not want to attack (without a flyer/TNN) or kill it. I like this as tech for sure.

I don't know if I miss the SfM package so much as I wanted more ways to interact with Delver in the main. An already difficult match-up felt almost Elves bad. That may be my fault and as always, DnT rewards tight play and good decision trees and punishes bad ones severely, but it felt distinctly worse. I recently was on a team that made Top 8 at a 26 team Trio tourney and I was the DnT player and I only lost to another DnT player. I beat Pile 1x and Delver 2x and it felt totally different with this build (better for the former and much worse for the latter.)

If I kept this basic build, I would probably start with the following drops at the very least:
-2 SotL
-2 THC
-2 Serra Avenger

Cards I sort of thought might work okay as alternates:
Eldrazi Displacer, because it gives us something to do with extra mana, is colorless (very not irrelevant), and the ability is good for defense or offense at the right moment, with the bonus upsides of 2W, not 1WW, and 3/3, not X/1.

Swords to Plowshares OR Sanctum Prelate.

Rest in Peace or Relic of Progenitus in the main. Yes, not great in some matches, but it would help against many of the popular decks. Probably better non-creatures than removal for this build.

Mirran Crusader. Sure, it is not nearly as good without equipment, but pro-B/G is still great and so is double strike.

Cards I thought about and immediately decided against:
Jotun Grunt. Hey, it was a card, once. Long ago. 1W, 4/4 is great, but that upkeep cost is pretty harsh. Needs Flickerwisp if you want it for more than a couple turns.

Stonecloaker. 3/2 flying flash, graveyard hate is good, right? Oh yeah, have to return a creature to your hand when it enters the battlefield. Oops.

Chalice of the Void. The whole point was to cut down on artifacts and then you run into issues if turn 1 wasn't Mom or Aether Vial and definitely not as good as in decks that can cast it turn 1. Better in a stompy deck.

So that's my thoughts, FWIW from someone no one near as good as Bahra against two popular decks and only 2. Take with large grain of salt, assume Bahra's criticisms are probably right :tongue:

[Finn]

On Bahra’s left field build: some old Magic cliches come to mind.

“Good decks play good cards.”
“The danger of cool things”

My tenure as the force behind this deck is over while Bahra is certainly an accomplished innovator. You have to respect that. Not to mention that Magic is a micrchosm for the corporate world when it comes to innovate or die. But Swords to Plowshares is and has been the best removal spell in the game since 1993. Don’t leave yourself with no spot removal when you have access to this card. Side it out as often as you like but don’t show up without it. Legacy has too many important targets for it.

[AsmodeusDM]

Just got into Seattle this morning. Anyone else here to do battle this weekend? I brought a whole mess of rw and ww stuff and will probably play some grinders today with various builds and get a sense of what the pnw meta is!

[Bahra]

Thanks for the comments and the willingness to try my build redtwister.

I'll try Swords to Plowshares I think, I just hate to play a card that I board out so often. But I think I'll try the build with 4 Swords to Plowshares first and then see if I might want to go down on numbers or whatever.

[Medea_]

Thanks for the comments and the willingness to try my build redtwister.

I'll try Swords to Plowshares I think, I just hate to play a card that I board out so often. But I think I'll try the build with 4 Swords to Plowshares first and then see if I might want to go down on numbers or whatever.

I think that's a happy medium between what you are doing and traditional D&T. Seems like a great thing to test. You could cut four cards at random for them...like, say, Spirit of the Labyrinth.

[AsmodeusDM]

So I don’t think you can cut all the sotl

I’m going to play this 60

3 plains
3 plateau
1 scrubland
5 fetchland
11 regular others

4 mom
4 thalia
4 vial
4 plows
3 devil
2 sotl
3 avenger
4 flicker
2 recruiter
1 magus
3 wingmare
1 prelate
2 big Thalia

[Lord Darkview]

So I was churning through the analysis of splashing for something like Pontiff on TU. I identified what looks like some omissions, and I think there is a very important point that is not addressed: the odds of seeing the card in the first place and the effect of Recruiter on playability.

Specifically, let's say that 72.5% chance of having the ability to get Pontiff into play on turn 4 is accurate (4 Caverns and 4 Vials). That still requires drawing Pontiff. If you have two copies in 60 cards, your odds of seeing one by turn four are, roughly, one in three, so the odds of being affected by color screw are about one-third of the residual 27.5% chance, or 9%. In effect, this will matter one in every six games you play Pontiff.

But in all likelihood, Pontiff is a swingy SB card. This means it will be played on fewer games, and only the ones where it has immense upside. We can further improve the odds by only playing one copy and adding a Recruiter instead, so we cut the chance of a dead card in half. Now, only 4-5% of games will you have a dead card due to color screw.

The question is what is more valuable: the reliability of ability to cast and instant speed provided by Holy Light, or the mixture of uncounterability, tutorability, and being able to attack provided by Pontiff?

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I'm also not sure that you absolutely have to shred the mana base to fit in Pontiff, either.

Edit: these are rough estimates. I'm not in a spot where I can calculate exactly.

[Finn]

It’s a meta call with pontiff, of course. But don’t forget that you have got fetchlands to help you decide on the fly if you want access to black mana and recruiters get the pontiff. That makes a world of difference.

[redtwister]

Bahra's creative burst has led me to revisit an idea put forward by some Japanese player in 2015 around the BMO events.

Here is the build I will be testing going into Baltimore Team Trios in May.

Lands 25
9 Plains
4 wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Karakas
1 Cavern of souls

Spells 7
4 Aether Vial
3 Swords to Plowshares

Creatures 28
4 thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of runes
4 Vryn Wingmare
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Flickerwisp
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Recruiter of the Guard

sideboard (quite sketchy)
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Council's Judgment
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Containment Priest
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Settle the Wreckage

[Bosque]

Bahra's creative burst has led me to revisit an idea put forward by some Japanese player in 2015 around the BMO events.

Here is the build I will be testing going into Baltimore Team Trios in May.


If you're playing the Arbiter/Mindcensor package, I'd think some Path to Exile in the sideboard should be solid considering how commonly we run there even without the search hate.

[JacobRoberts]

Played D&T at GP Seattle. Won 2 byes at a LCT the day before, but went 2-3 in the main event. Win or lose, I don't think player skill played a factor in any of my matches, and all of them were won by the player who won the die roll. Kind of frustrating.

Looking around the room on Thursday and Friday, the 3 most common decks I saw were Grixis Delver, Lands, and D&T. It's pretty striking to me that despite D&T being so popular during LCTs, I was the only one who won byes with it. I get the feeling that there's no (common) matchups I really want to play with D&T. That I'm 50/50 at best vs the field. I feel like beating grixis delver on the draw is very difficult without a vial that sticks. An R Stompy opponent told me he felt like he was very favored post-board because of all the bombs he gets to bring in. Turbo Depths plays Rite of Consumption now, which is extremely difficult to interact with. Which matchups do I actually want to see?

The list I played is found here (https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea18-legacy/legacy-last-chance-trial-winning-decklists-2018-04-06), I'm the only D&T there. Notably, I'm on 0 prelate. It's only good game 1 against a small handful of decks, and it loses a lot of relevance post-board against those decks. The possibility of it existing forces your opponents to play differently, which is a nice plus. Overall I believe abandoning Prelate is correct.

[ChrisCunningham]

Now, only 4-5% of games will you have a dead card due to color screw.

Hi -- I'm the one who did the analysis of mana with vials! You are right that the calculations tell you when you will have the capability to play the card, regardless of whether you draw it or not. You will only be able to play the Pontiff "on curve" with 4vial+4cavern 72% of the time. So about 28% of your Pontiffs will be unplayable.

To give you a parallel, if your deck already has 12 blue cards, you might think "I'll just throw in one Force of Will as the 13th blue card." Indeed if you do this, you only draw an uncastable Force in your opening hand 2.78% of the time. But that is 24% of your Force of Wills. This is very similar to the odds you are talking about -- 24% of your Force of Wills will be unplayable.

So playing Pontiff in your 4cavern, 4vial deck is as bad as (or even worse than) throwing a Force of Will into your deck as the 13th blue card. It won't actually punish you in very many games because you will rarely draw it, but you should try to resist that logic.

[Lord Darkview]

Hi -- I'm the one who did the analysis of mana with vials! You are right that the calculations tell you when you will have the capability to play the card, regardless of whether you draw it or not. You will only be able to play the Pontiff "on curve" with 4vial+4cavern 72% of the time. So about 28% of your Pontiffs will be unplayable.

To give you a parallel, if your deck already has 12 blue cards, you might think "I'll just throw in one Force of Will as the 13th blue card." Indeed if you do this, you only draw an uncastable Force in your opening hand 2.78% of the time. But that is 24% of your Force of Wills. This is very similar to the odds you are talking about -- 24% of your Force of Wills will be unplayable.

So playing Pontiff in your 4cavern, 4vial deck is as bad as (or even worse than) throwing a Force of Will into your deck as the 13th blue card. It won't actually punish you in very many games because you will rarely draw it, but you should try to resist that logic.

I saw your analysis, and appreciated it. I've done those myself on occasion, though typically I run more "back of the envelope estimates" like I did above. What I was saying is not, "Your analysis is wrong," because it isn't. It is, in fact, quite accurate. But it was missing the key context of the question.

Consider the following hypothetical, which is quite logical for our specific context: "I want an answer to TNN and Elves. I have two SB slots to devote to the question. Should it be 2x Holy Light, or 1x Recruiter and 1x Pontiff?"

You will see and generally be able to cast Holy Light in about 31% of the time.

In contrast, you will see Recruiter or Pontiff (assuming you already had the typical MD 2x Recruiter) about 53% of the time. Of those, 28% of the time a Pontiff will not be usable; meaning that we have a roughly 38% of finding and casting Pontiff. We also have a roughly 17% chance of naturally drawing Pontiff with a 28% chance of not being able to use it, which means a 5% chance of a dead draw.

So the question becomes which of the following scenarios is preferable?

31% access to the desired effect as an Instant.
38% access to the desired effect, uncounterably, with slightly better odds of Instant than Sorcery speed; but also with a 5% chance of a dead card.

Generally, I think (b) is better.



There are a few key differences between this formulation and the FoW question.

The FoW question is less precisely phrased. That means we are evaluating the risk-versus-reward of a dead FoW generally, rather versus a specific alternative. That is a much more nebulous question, and harder to apply a value judgment to.
The SB card generally has greater reward in the situation being examined versus its counterpart. IE: the value of a good FoW is highly uncertain. The value of a good Pontiff when you bring it in is always high.
The presence of Recruiter allows one to increase the odds of a useful Pontiff independently of its chance to be a dead draw. The consequence is that there is a higher chance to get Pontiff when it is useful versus its the nearest alternative. One might argue that blue's cantrips could offset this, but I do not have a mathematical treatment for it yet.




The upshot of all this is that, hopefully at some point in the near future, I will acquire two more Caverns. You know, when it's in my budget.



Edit: A very late addendum to this "context matters" idea, but an important one that I didn't feel comfortable leaving out.

I've given this some more thought. The biggest problem with the 4 Caverns plan is not a failure to resolve Pontiff, but a failure to resolve Swords to Plowshares, Flickerwisp, and many other things.

Effectively, 4 Caverns, Ports, and Wastelands generally leaves us only 11 slots for W-producing lands. That is not enough to snap off non-Human spells in a timely manner. This, more than any issue with the reliability of Pontiff himself, is why a fetch+dual lands mana base is actually preferable.

[AsmodeusDM]

Still at GP Seattle and now we have a winner.

There was a lot of D&T here this weekend I mean A LOT ...

The reality is that no d&t decks did well, perused the top 40 or tables in last Swiss round and hardly saw any players.

Uggg it’s sad and disappointing

Delver is just so consistent and powerful and ugggh

I just hate that delver feels like a bad match up

[Tylert]

The meta has shifted. It will shift back at some point in time as usual...

[Bahra]

The meta has shifted. It will shift back at some point in time as usual...

You sound oddly confident in that assessment.

Truth is that the meta will not shift away from Grixis Delver being a (the) top deck before we see a ban. Meta has been stale ever since the top ban, and it will stay exactly like this for quite a while I assume.

[Tylert]

You sound oddly confident in that assessment.

Truth is that the meta will not shift away from Grixis Delver being a (the) top deck before we see a ban. Meta has been stale ever since the top ban, and it will stay exactly like this for quite a while I assume.

I think I forgot to finish my sentence: " ... Or they will ban DRS" :)

[redtwister]

Ok, advices taken.

Lands 25
9 Plains
4 wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Karakas
1 Cavern of souls

Spells 7
4 Aether Vial
3 Swords to Plowshares

Creatures 28
4 thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of runes
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Vryn Wingmare
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Flickerwisp

sideboard (quite sketchy)
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Council's Judgment
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Containment Priest
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Settle the Wreckage

Prelate out, THC back in. Brimaz might be a bad choice, but I am testing it. I have liked Hallowed Spiritkeeper when I have seen _Bahra play it on stream, just seems like a really annoying threat/blocker and fetchable. Since this build has 25 lands, I have considered Eldrazi Displacer as it is a flexible card, a 3/3, and colorless.

Also realized that Recruiter + Arbiter is a nonbo. Hrm. Well, so is Daredevil + 8 thalia efects + SotL, so I am going to give it a shot.

[Lord Darkview]

One of the cool parts of Bahra's build is how many extra slots you get by playing DFD over SFM+equipment. More precisely, you get 3-4 extra slots. This allows you to play a lot more specialized guys.

I don't quite know how I feel about Hallowed Spiritkeeper. I grabbed a set for like $1, because you can't really go wrong at that price. It seems like it may be better than Brimaz, generally. The only snag is it's a card you'd really rather have in the mid-game, and then only against decks that you're not bringing in RiP against. A singleton in the 75 to tutor up seems reasonable, but I can't see many decks that I'd want more than two copies against.

Thalia HC has also been better than Brimaz for me, due to First Strike walling, interactions with Karakas, being a meaningful tax generally, doing some work against Sneak Attack and Reality Smasher, and being solid in general versus Elves.

For me however, it seems likely that this 3-drop slot will instead become a third Recruiter, to virtually increase my Crusader, SFM, and Thalia GoT count, while giving me an extra shot at post-SB creatures.

[Koke_MTG]

Hey guys,

I top8'ed yesterday at one of the biggest Legacy events in Spain over the year (140~ players).

I ran the Wr list with which I feel more confortable: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/994583#paper

I felt great all the week before the event. Run the same list with some nice results: triple 4-1 and a 3-0

My overall record over the main event was 6-1-1, losing in quarters against a friend on Grixis Delver. My matchups in swiss rounds were like:

Bant DeathBlade 2-1
Burn 2-1
UW Control 2-0
Team América 0-2
Eldrazi Stompy 2-1
Mono-Red Sneak 2-1
Grixis Delver 2-0
ID

Deck felt great (especially P&K) despite the fact that I don't think we actually have 60%+ matchups in our favor like other times.

In fact, we start a lot of games from behind against DRS.

Delver decks grind now quite better and can attack from more angles and more effectively without being punished.

Is quite hard to interact against some kind of combos nowadays, like Sneak & Show, Reanimator strategies and Turbo Depths as well. Also because we're "forced" to improve our capacity to grind losing some capacity against combo.

I see dark times for D&T until DRS is done. Although I'm gonna keep playing it for sure and hope to do a nice work in París and Birmingham next month.

[redtwister]

@Koke_MTG
Nice job!

[hill_giant]

Still at GP Seattle and now we have a winner.

There was a lot of D&T here this weekend I mean A LOT ...

The reality is that no d&t decks did well, perused the top 40 or tables in last Swiss round and hardly saw any players.

Uggg it’s sad and disappointing

Delver is just so consistent and powerful and ugggh

I just hate that delver feels like a bad match up

Why does delver feel like a bad matchup? I played against delver six times at the GP and only lost once to really bad draws. Delver is what we're meant to be preying on, so if we get to the point where we're not winning that matchup, it's time to move to a different deck. Sword of fire and ice is so good against them.

[J ♥ 5]

Hey Guys,
Figured i'd post a brief tournament report from GP Seattle!

Given the amount of pile hopping around, and the large increase (at least in the PNW) of BUG strategies (both delver & control) I opted for the following list:


2 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

4 Flickerwisp
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

//SIDEBOARD

2 Containment Priest
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of War and Peace



I've been testing the red splash off and on for the last few months, but mono white really is my home.


Some friends & I started out the week coming down from Vancouver to compete in the 5k (Duel for Duals) @ Mox Boarding house. This was an excellent tournament, however the short form is I lost a few times and ended up placing 15th. Not good enough to get some sweet duals, but certainly sweet enough to prepare me for the main event.

Thursday I scrub out of the last chance qualifier against delver and decide to go get some cards sold & some cards signed and go in to day 1 fighting the first two rounds, but at least clear minded about things I wanted to do.

Now full disclaimer I somehow lost my notebook between day 1 and day 2, so I don't really have sideboard notes - please ask if you have any questions


Round 1 - John Barth - BUG Control - 2-0
On the Draw:

This is the matchup I wanted to see all day, Mirran Crusaders shined at attacking through everything aside from True Names, paired with some good ports I locked this up pretty quickly
Highlight - I have a vial on 3 and no creatures, opponent has a strix and a bunch of land and a couple cards in hand and is at 4 - the only way I lose here is if he can cast an edict on me, so I use my 3 ports to port him out across different phases of his turn, so he only has one mana left by the time its endstep - vial in crusader and whammo.

Round 2 - Jonathan Mackenzie - Eldrazi - 2-0
Game 1 was decided by a waste & port heavy hand, leaving Jonathan unable to cast many spells while I was beating him with a crusader and he could only play x/2's to block.
Game 2 was very similar, except he got a chalice on one out in between which left some removal stranded for me. He did end up attempting to cast an endless one for x = 1 to get a blocker to which i happily pointed out his chalice and continued to attack him with my crusaders & Gideon

Round 3 - Jeff Wilcox - RB Reanimator - 2-0
Game 1 Opponent mulls to 6 and reveals chancellor, then unmasks me and looks at my hand of mother of runes, stoneforge, thalia and some lands and says 'cool, maverick!' (This was my first indication he was fairly new to legacy)
He ended up not having any other plays and passes the turn, i throw a mom down in to the chancellor so i can try to thalia on time next turn and pass, he draws a card and passes back with no plays, i play thalia and its lights out.
Game 2 I keep a hand with RIP and some other relevant spells, he bins a grislebrand and unmasks me taking RIP, I lead on karakas and (very luckily) peeled a surgical and take his threat out of the bin then proceed to aggro him out.

Round 4 - John Seow - Grixis Delver - 2-0
Game 1 i spot him play deathrite off of a usea, which usually is a good indicator they don't have that many lands (no fetch), i plow the deathrite, next turn he ponders and passes, and i waste his usea then proceed to ride the mana advantage to victory
Game 2 we end up fairly similar, except we both fire off a ton of wastelands - during which i manage to get all of his useas and keep the deathrites off the table. Without black mana he can't keep up.

Round 5 - Eric Froelich - Miracles - 2-1
So I'm already running exceptionally hot, and when I see I get paired against Efro I get a little nervous for two reasons, he is a fantastic magic player, and then this also brings in the possiblity of a feature match, which I haven't actually had at a GP yet.
Well, the feature match ended up happening: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/247289683?t=06h08m12s
I would suggest watching it for more info, but the short form is here:
G1 -> I'm missing a plow and get mentored
G2 -> I do the D&T thing
G3 -> There were a few oddball swords to plowshares from Efro's side which I was more than happy to have happen as it meant he tapped out, and sword of war & peace got to show itself on the big stage. The confusion from the announcers here was actually shared by me at the time, I was getting pretty shaky and my heart was beating out of my chest once it looked like i was going to beat Efro on camera and I missed that he gained three life when I swords'd his mentor.
The good news is that even if he had a way to deal with my crusader post attack, my hand was the most stacked it was all weekend and I was GOING to get that last two damage in.

Round 6 - Darren Rennick - Goblins - 2-0
Once I see I'm playing against Goblins I can't help but gush about them being in this bracket, my opponent was a great guy who was also very happy to be doing so well with the deck.
G1 sword of fire & ice did it's thing, I managed to hold off a few attacks by two lackeys early on by having a mom up and a vial on 2 - I didn't have anything I could have put in so if he would have connected and dropped something I was in trouble, but thankfully he was too scared of me blocking both he didn't make the attacks.
G2 he gets going pretty wide but i stabilize and start murdering his board with equipment

Round 7 - Jacob Birch - Infect - 0-2
By this round the mental exhaustion of the day was creeping in, I was making a point between every round to eat some of the nuts/fruit I brought with me and drink a bunch of water, and then try to really visualize everything that is happening at the start of each of my turns, and this round is where that all kind of got derailed (I was also super excited at being locked for day 2 at x-2 at worst)
G1 i just don't get the pieces I need and get infected out
G2 I spend all game porting his inkmonths and trying to find an angle to put some pressure on, I end up recruiter -> wisp chaining to get some fliers going, but I actually missed some damage on him earlier and didn't double check which lead to me being too defensive when I could have actually gotten the kill and pushed it to game three, Instead I put him to 3 and get killed on the crack back.

Round 8 - Kevin King - Lands - 2-0
G1 I keep him off green sources and hes a little starved for Mana, I get some equipement up and port his mazes so i can get in and attack for lethal
G2 i get a prelate down on 2 (which is a little awkward with my RIP in hand, but hey its still great) and force him to go almost all in for the marit lage on his turn, putting him down to one mana source (in the 5k I actually misplayed and didn't force this against turbo depths which is the reason I lost, so hey... I'm remember things!) and get to flickerwisp it away on my turn and crash in for victory shortly after

Finish day one having gone 7 - 1, only losing three games. A ton of stuff has had to break my way for this to have happened, but hey thats Magic right - Nobody does well without luck, and nobody does well with ONLY luck


Day Two
Round 9 - Aaron Barich - Infect - 2-1
G1 - I'm keeping him off infectors and hes hitting me a few times with an exalted noble heirarch. I'm at a pretty healthy life total and he attacks with the arbor, i decide to chump with my stoneforge just to try and dodge some amount of exactly what happened: invigorate + invigorate + become immense + berserk (which is totally sick), game is over.
G2 - I keep him locked down, he kills my jitte but my damage is still too good.
G3 - My hand is swords, path and some other action - snap keep. I get rid of basically all of his creatures he draws, and we keep trading removal spell for creatures, he finally draws a harder one for me to deal with (inkmoth) and i peel the wasteland. Definitely ran very hot this game and kept him off action.

Round 10 - Ryan Sala - Grixis Delver - 2-1
Here comes the day of the format boogeymen, lately I've felt slightly disfavoured against grixis, the sideboard plans are all so broad, and they have a variety of good-value answers to almost everything we're doing
Regardless I managed to take the round in three

Round 11 - Ian Roy - ANT - 2-0
G1 he has a slow hand that doesn't develop post thalia
G2 he goes for an adnauseum with 0 mana floating and a past in flames, infernal tutor and some rituals in the bin, in response I surgical his lions eye diamonds. He flips ~ 15 cards and ends up at 2 life without Tendrils. He makes basically infinite black & storm count while burning his petals to cast cantrips to try and draw tendrils, then he has to resort to cabal therapying himself to try to empty his hand and cast the infernal tutor, he has too many cards with different names and can't pull it off. I win the game shortly after.

Round 12 - Kusakabe Kyohei - Czech Pile - 0-2
Kyohei had my number this match, he was playing 2+ bolts which makes mirran crusader definitely worse, and every time i tried to get something online he had the decays, bolt, or kolaghans command.
G2 was very similar, I never drew any of my sideboard cards and just couldn't put up a fight.
I'm a little miffed about losing a matchup I was tech'd for - but this is how playing no blue cards goes sometimes :)

Round 13 - Jeremy Dezani - BUG Control - 0-1-1
Another feature match, which I'm feeling more comfortable about this time
(EDIT: Match Here -> https://www.twitch.tv/videos/248897603)
G1 I keep a pretty slow hand that I figure has game against a lot of fair decks, he turned out to be playing one which was great, but his answers just lined up better than my threats. Also I should have been paying more attention to time time and conceded earlier, in addition I feel like I should have called a judge for some slow play as this game took easily 35 minutes which included some things like taking 4+ minutes to resolve cantrips. I'm sure this is all benign and innocent, but at the point in game 2 when I felt like I could win it, it was pretty discouraging to see I would have to have won game 3 in around 5 minutes given that I think the play time was about 20% me 80% him. Calling for slow play is something I have a hard time doing in general, and I believe the additional pressure of playing a pro, being in the feature match, and having a bunch of spectators in person made me avoid it.

G2 I feel like i was so close this game, but a lot of my draws just didn't pan out, we finish on turns and he wins 1-0-1
In the coverage this match Reid made a comment about a great player noticing that Jeremy's plan had shifted once he started trying to remove my Mother of runes, I definitely was on some amount of autopilot this match and exasperated from my poor draws and didn't pick up on it, for now I'd love to blame this on the feature match pressure but I think this is a real learning experience and something I'm going to be more keenly aware of in the future.

This match was my heartbreaker as it meant I was out of top 8 contention, even if winning this one and then an additional three was unlikely, it was definitely deflating since the games felt like I didn't have much play in either of them.
Thankfully my friends came by with a sandwich and picked me right up.

Round 14 - Joby Parrish - RB Reanimator - 2-1
G1 he shows me a chancellor and reanimates a bunch of stuff.
G2 i keep a karakas rest in peace hand, he jams grislebrand and draws 14 before it gets bounced, he pitches a bunch of stuff to reanimate next turn and i drop the RIP to shut him down
G3 I D&T him hard, early karakas vs no quick reanimation followed by some thalias & containment priest takes me in to round 15 x-3

Round 15 - Marcel Dizon - Grixis - 1-2
Marcel is a local from Vancouver who a year or two ago I would run in to FREQUENTLY in the top 8 of local tournaments, i believe lifetime our stats are pretty even and we have a good little rivalry, he has been telling me all day he is coming for me and i've been dreading it because I know if I lose i'll hear about it for a while haha.
We sit down and play one of the most casual and fun matches of the day, throwing minor barbs and shit talk back and forth, I take him game 1 then he unfortunately gets me with the key sideboard cards of dread of night G2 and staticaster G3.
I actually thought i was out of prizes after this loss and was pretty bummed, but after the standings are posted I ended up 54th, which is just 10 better than minimum to cash. but when it comes down to it if I'm going to lose round 15 of a legacy GP i'd rather it be to Marcel than some random, it seemed fitting that we both made the trip down and were battling for extra cash at the 11th hour.

All in all I had periods of running exceptionally hot, and ended up with the best GP placement I've ever had. I think the deck is in a decent place in the meta right now, but the abundance of 2 for 1s and things that just incidentally kill equipment does make things difficult. The BUG matchup is basically great until they cast a true name or marsh casualties - but abrupt decay on sword can make some crusaders just charge to their deaths.

The key I was most proud of for the event (aside from making cash which was my goal in heading down) was playing tightly, there were very few times that I can say I honestly made a mistake and it feels really good to have that technical practice pay off - big thanks to everyone on these forums and all of the grinders at my local shop for helping me get to this point - hoping to find another relatively local legacy GP to jam and make top 8 in soon :)

[Borgur]

2 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

4 Flickerwisp
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

//SIDEBOARD

2 Containment Priest
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of War and Peace




Congratulations with a fantastic result!

How did Gideon perform, and when did you side him in?

Would you make any changes to your deck based on the weekend?

[a tribe called trest]

Any merit to trying to mangara people out again if going away from the stoneforge package? Could bump to 24 lands to support restoration angel to help abuse it plus give an extra evasive beater. You can make a pretty flyer heavy build to take the sting out of losing the equipment pushing damage through and to block delvers.

rough creature list but something like

4x mother of runes
4x thalia, guardian of thraben
4x serra avenger
4x flickerwisp
3x thalia, heretic cathar
2x restoration angel
2x recruiter of the guard
2x mangara of corondor
1x sanctum prelate
1x vryn wingmare
1x aven mindcensor

[Lord Darkview]

Mangara is rather slow, and many matchups require speed. I can see packing a copy, but probably just one, and relying on Recruiter to get it when it's needed.

[Plague Sliver]

Hey Guys,
Figured i'd post a brief tournament report from GP Seattle!



Jeff, congrats again on a fantastic result!

[hill_giant]

Mangara is rather slow, and many matchups require speed. I can see packing a copy, but probably just one, and relying on Recruiter to get it when it's needed.

When I've played him as a recruiter target, I never felt like he was worth fetching. The card is already slow, and when you have to recruit him, wait a turn, cast him, wait a turn, use him, then it's just so slow that it'll never help. Vial obviously helps speed up that process, but when you don't have it, Mangara is just so weak. He dies to everything, too, and you get nothing if he doesn't untap, so really you want a vial and a mom and a Karakas in order to make him good. Compared to bigger value cards like P&K that are difficult to answer with a single card and gain immediate value on ETB, Mangara just feels too clunky, like you've probably won anyway in any game where he comes online. If sneak and show gets big again, then maybe he becomes worthwhile again, but he's just so clunky.

[J ♥ 5]

Congratulations with a fantastic result!

How did Gideon perform, and when did you side him in?

Would you make any changes to your deck based on the weekend?

My heart always belongs to Cataclysm in this spot, but I figured for a big stakes tournament lets go something mostly objectively better.
In my eyes Gideon comes in for every grindy matchup, and a few others where threat density is relevant (eldrazi) and nearly always functions only as 0: Make a 2/2.
This weekend I brought it in against Pile, BUG Control, Miracles and Eldrazi, occasionally i'll bring it in against lands too. I almost never -4, i've found that most of the matchups where that mode is relevant Gideon is generally too slow anyways, so hes far better as a threat maker.

Regarding changes, I'm not quite sure. I need to find an additional card that makes the grixis/pile/control matchups feel good, crusader is huge against everything but bolt, but getting stonewalled by TNN (or worst case attacking in with sword and having that eat an abrupt decay and then have crusader die to TNN) is very rough. Next couple weeks i'm going to be experimenting at the weeklies with some 100% garbage plans just to try and get a feel for what may be good.


Jeff, congrats again on a fantastic result!

Thanks James! Was great we got to hang out on that last night - maybe next time i'll make it over to a tournament in your neck of the woods

[a tribe called trest]

Mangara is rather slow, and many matchups require speed. I can see packing a copy, but probably just one, and relying on Recruiter to get it when it's needed.

You're likely correct, it was just a quick list. It should probably be -1 mangara -1 aven for another wingmare and 1 crusader or hallowed spiritkeeper

[Water_Wizard]

Regarding changes, I'm not quite sure. I need to find an additional card that makes the grixis/pile/control matchups feel good, crusader is huge against everything but bolt, but getting stonewalled by TNN (or worst case attacking in with sword and having that eat an abrupt decay and then have crusader die to TNN) is very rough. Next couple weeks i'm going to be experimenting at the weeklies with some 100% garbage plans just to try and get a feel for what may be good.
s

Paladin en-Vec

I'm just going to throw that out there vs. the Pile and Grixis match up. Diabolic Edict is the only thing that kills it and they can't block it with much.

Serra Avenger is the ticket to beat TNN and and also great against Young Pyromancer.

Congratulations on your finish. With you list, I suggest

-3 Mirran Crusader
-2 Cavern of Souls (optional and a meta call, but non-Cavern lands are better with Angels)

+1 Horizon Canopy (helps out with Angel and card draw but also damage - this slot is optional and can remain Cavern of Souls)
+1 Ghost Quarter (a 5th Wasteland vs. Grixis Delver and also good vs. many matchups where they run a handful of basics because they will fetch them all and your Ghost Quarters and Path to Exiles will have nothing to fetch)
+2 Serra Avenger
+1 Paladin en-Vec (really improves the Czech Pile and Grixis match-ups)

[Lord Darkview]

Paladin en-Vec

I used to run this until I saw the TU Humans podcast that ran Auriok Champion. Since then, I've switched. It's worse versus Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemental, and Marsh Casualties, and better versus everything else.

[Medea_]

I used to run this until I saw the TU Humans podcast that ran Auriok Champion. Since then, I've switched. It's worse versus Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemental, and Marsh Casualties, and better versus everything else.

Yeah, I'll stream a proper D&T build with Auriok Champion sometime next week probably. I've been wanting to test that, this week is just crazy.

[redtwister]

I've been wondering if Brimaz is good right now for the same reason as Bahra has been playing Hallowed Spiritkeeper. Brimaz is hard to block, doesn't die to bolt, is a solid defender, generates the kitty-kat parade whether attacking or blocking, and isn't killed by TNN alone on a block, which is also races. Then again, Spiritkeeper might just be better thanks to the draw. Both seem like cards you want against Mircles.

Anyone have a link for that UW list?

If you drop SFM package, is Honor of the Pure maindeckable?

Should Revoker be replaced with SotL?

[frenadol]

Spiritkeeper was never good in the previous meta because Miracles either removed it from the game or tucked it to the bottom of your library, never killing it and getting the trigger. It's better now that BUGx decks tend to be grindy and kill lots of creatures but I'm still not convinced the card is that good either. But I still think it has more value than Brimaz.

Brimaz was an excellent counter to Miracles but right now I personally see more value in Mirran Crusader.

About the SFM-less builds in general, I think they're interesting but the main downside is that they fold extremely hard to any kind of -1/-1 effect, so while they might be good for an unknown metagame (like a GP) where nobody will pack Golgari Charm or Dread of Night, nor play WB/r Taxes with Pontiff, I wouldn't bring it to a known meta like your LGS. It should perform well in MODO as the meta is more blue and combo oriented than paper.

[Lord Darkview]

I've been wondering if Brimaz is good right now for the same reason as Bahra has been playing Hallowed Spiritkeeper. Brimaz is hard to block, doesn't die to bolt, is a solid defender, generates the kitty-kat parade whether attacking or blocking, and isn't killed by TNN alone on a block, which is also races. Then again, Spiritkeeper might just be better thanks to the draw. Both seem like cards you want against Mircles.

Anyone have a link for that UW list?

If you drop SFM package, is Honor of the Pure maindeckable?

Should Revoker be replaced with SotL?


Spiritkeeper was never good in the previous meta because Miracles either removed it from the game or tucked it to the bottom of your library, never killing it and getting the trigger. It's better now that BUGx decks tend to be grindy and kill lots of creatures but I'm still not convinced the card is that good either. But I still think it has more value than Brimaz.

Brimaz was an excellent counter to Miracles but right now I personally see more value in Mirran Crusader.

About the SFM-less builds in general, I think they're interesting but the main downside is that they fold extremely hard to any kind of -1/-1 effect, so while they might be good for an unknown metagame (like a GP) where nobody will pack Golgari Charm or Dread of Night, nor play WB/r Taxes with Pontiff, I wouldn't bring it to a known meta like your LGS. It should perform well in MODO as the meta is more blue and combo oriented than paper.

I am tinkering with a build that MBs Honor of the Pure and Hallowed Spiritkeeper. The former does a lot to thwart +X/-1 effects. Spice is good mono-White triggers for Spiritkeeper.

[AsmodeusDM]

I've been wondering if Brimaz is good right now for the same reason as Bahra has been playing Hallowed Spiritkeeper. Brimaz is hard to block, doesn't die to bolt, is a solid defender, generates the kitty-kat parade whether attacking or blocking, and isn't killed by TNN alone on a block, which is also races. Then again, Spiritkeeper might just be better thanks to the draw. Both seem like cards you want against Mircles.

Anyone have a link for that UW list?

If you drop SFM package, is Honor of the Pure maindeckable?

Should Revoker be replaced with SotL?

Didn't Bahra just 5-0 a league with a 75 that included Honor of the Pure ?


Found it:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1029110#paper

[redtwister]

@AsmodeusDM
Yeah, I have been watching all of Bahra and Medea's DnT leagues, either live or the videos. Very, very interesting stuff and I am trying to settle on a build for Baltimore Team Trio in May, where I will be on DnT.

Honor has been a lot of value out of the board, but I was thinking of putting it in the main in place of SfM. And no, there is no good way to search for enchantments that comes even close to SfM, only Aura fetchers, and most of the Aurus stink.

[Tylert]

Benalish hero. Too bad this guy has triple white mana cost.

[Medea_]

@AsmodeusDM
Yeah, I have been watching all of Bahra and Medea's DnT leagues, either live or the videos. Very, very interesting stuff and I am trying to settle on a build for Baltimore Team Trio in May, where I will be on DnT.

Honor has been a lot of value out of the board, but I was thinking of putting it in the main in place of SfM. And no, there is no good way to search for enchantments that comes even close to SfM, only Aura fetchers, and most of the Aurus stink.

Honor of the Pure has definitely impressed me more than I expected it would. I don't know if you were around for the stream where I talked about this, but I'm really liking Enchantments in this metagame. They're just impossible for most decks to remove right now.

[Zorker]

This is my decklist:


Creatures (26)
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Sanctum Prelate

Spells (11)
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

Lands (23)
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
10 Plains

2 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Path to Exile
2 Council's Judgment
2 Cataclysm
1 sword of war and peace




Todayi had my first tournament with D&T, it didn`t go too well...but it was my first time with this deck.


1) D&T vs Bye

2) D&T Vs Miracles 1-1 grindy match up, made some careless mistakes

3)D&T Vs Miracles 0-2. Missed some importamt card interactions

4) D&T Vs Infect 1-2: learn to use only the spell that you need( removal, 1 cretaure +equip)

5) D&T vs Dresge 0-:2 i won thanks to talia and co, second game he dredge all of his removal so i won



pretty shynthetic report i know, I am using the Mono w version for budget reason(plateau)

[Tylert]

3-1-1 isn't it worth a top 8? I mean, it's decent considering this was your first time with the deck.

[DarthVicious]

I also had a relatively unimpressive showing at a 50-ish man tournament today, going 3-3 with my own weird little monoW list.

2-0 MonoR Sneak Stompy
-Stalking Leonin was awesome here, plus Displacer flickering Recruiter for chump blocks and value, Vial didn't make an appearance.

0-2 Cloudpost MUD
-MUD is awkward when you drop 1cc spot removal... and they turn 2 Wurmcoil, t3 Empyrion, t4 Ugin, again Vial was out sick.

0-2 BUG Delver
-he had too many answers game 1, and too many wastelands game 2, and I didn't draw enough plains. Surprising considering I'm running 12. One Vial got dazed, but at least it showed up.

0-2 BRg Reanimator
-again the lack of 1cc spot removal spites me as I have Karakas vs Chancellor reveal + T2 Sire. Fun matchup though, he had no discard outlets game 2 so he reanimated my Thalia until Sire could come out to play. Vial should've been thrown at the Chancellor trigger game 1, as it would've allowed Thalia to shut off Exhume... but hindsight is 20/20.

2-0 RUG Delver
-Leonin rules again, combined with Mirran strolling past his green dudes and Prelate@1 shutting off his bolts. Running 8 maindeck 3/3s with 2 more SB is nice when your opponent counts on Mongoose/Goyf for damage. Vial came out to play here, mostly for 'haste'.

2-1 MonoR Sneak
-he had a dinosaur flavor to all his dudes that made it a fun matchup, but my list had too much beef for even that much fat to kill. Leonin worked overtime. Vial helped a lot, finally.


Overall I was pretty happy with it, but I'm going to test that Arbiter version with Quarters and Paths. Port doesn't pull its weight in a format run by Elf Shamans. If you guys haven't tried the Leonin out, you should. Even if all he does is prevent them from attacking, it's often enough.

[redtwister]

I have been playing the Arbiter + GQ build and my main issues are as follows:
1. Sometimes you still don't mana screw them.
2. Arbiter is a terrible attacker.
3. Still more or less loses to TNN because you can't race it.
4. Really in trouble vs. TNN + Gurmag Angler.

One issue I have with the various builds without SfM package is just being forced to out-grind my opponent without the power of Jitte/Batterskull/SoFaI and Arbiter + Mindcensor is especially bad at that by themselves.

I also felt like I had a lot less to work with adding in 4 GQ, 4 Arbiter, 2 Mindcensor. It still doesn't play nicely with Cavern of Souls because then you are short of W sources and WW is still complicated. Maybe it could be build better than mine was.

[cursecatcher]

With the fair drs blue decks sitting at the top of the Legacy metagame currently, the builds of D&T cutting the sfm package make a lot of sense to me. We should have a better chance in those matchups if we're not opening ourselves up to getting blown out in terms of tempo and/or value. I love connecting with jitte or sofai as much as the next mom-lover, but it doesn't seem reliable currently. The builds that cut sfm and equipment for additional threatening/disruptive creatures sound appealing. The deck becomes closer to modern humans, to some extent.

Bahra's red splash build that he got 3rd with in the Legacy Challenge last weekend looks good for sure, but the 5-0 list posted by Egget yesterday looks great too.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2018-04-14

Having access to Pontiff is great, and Bahra even dips into a 3rd color for it. I'm wary of the double splash however.

The Wb build also has 4 dark confidant as another great turn 2 play. Along with the 4 thalia and 2 spirit of the labyrinth, that's a higher density of proactive plays for turn 2. The Wr build has Daredevil in the bob slot, and while I think Daredevil is great, it's typically not a 2 mana play (vial can change this, of course). Basically, the curve of the Wb build looks better to me.

Kambal is a nice pickup too, and I definitely like having access to 2 in the 75, but the real spice comes in with the disciple of bolas. I'd love to get Egget's take on how that card performed, especially in combination with hallowed spiritkeeper. These grindy elements seem great for combating czech pile, though perhaps disciple is overkill. I wonder if there are other good ways to sac spiritkeeper that we'd be interested in playing (preferably costing 3 or less).

[redtwister]

Looking over Soldier Stompy, I am curious if Aerial Responder isn't just a better choice than Serra Avenger. [EDIT: Nevermind, it has been FANTASTIC for me. See below.]

In common:
WW
Vigilance
Flying
Neither one can be searched with Recruiter.

Serra Avenger is only CMC2, but without Vial, it cannot be cast before turn 4. Plus many decks are now going in heavy on CMC3, so they want to tick up to 3.

Responder is CMC3, but can be cast turn 3 and is a Soldier (in common with TGoT and Recruiter) if Cavern is in the deck. However, most importantly, lifelink. I feel like that is a very powerful ability and races actually slightly better than 3/3, since it is a 4 point swing each turn. It effectively reduces TNN to a 1 damage per turn creature.

Unrelated question [EDIT: I lied, it was a related question, see below]: If you were running Enlightened Tutor again for some reason, would you run Horizon Canopy?

Build I am testing, has run very well vs. Grixis Delver and Czech Pile. Much tweaking ongoing, but so far Aerial Responder is exceedingly good (I raced a TNN with it and Mom out, which felt quite amazing; any other creature and I would have lost.) HotP is great, and ET is surprisingly powerful with the targets I have (Vials, HotP, Jitte, SotL, Revoker main.)

Right now, the only cards I am on the fence about are
Jitte (which is still very, very good as a card and tutorable in this build)
Phyrexian Revoker (tutorable tech, but still what it is)
Hallowed Spiritkeeper
Spirit of the Labyrinth (as usual)

Cards I would like but that I am unsure if they are good enough:
Brimaz, King of Oreskos (really powerful with HotP, very good against certain kinds of decks, and I love me some kitty-kat parade, but not Recruiter-able, so would it have to be in multiples? Competing with Spiritkeeper and probably 1 Mirran Crusader, but that drops my Recruiter targets. then again, 90% of my recruiting is for Flickerwisp, so...)
Selfless Spirit (as much as anything because it is a 2/1 1W flyer, so it bolsters the CMC 2 creature spot a bit)
Cavern of Souls (I love Canopy, so I don't feel bad about it, but Cavern on Soldier or Human is very good. Don't want to drop to 13 true W sources, however.)
Judge's Familiar (the little bird has over-performed against Delver and combo and is another nice one with HotP, making it easier to get out)

I don't want to put in too many creatures that sacrifice themselves, but with Hallowed or Brimaz, it seems ok, since both get value from it, especially if it keeps them alive when I need them to.

i have actually considered Settle the Wreckage in the sideboard, but it seems like it doesn't get there against Elves and what else would I want it against besides the mirror and Stoneblade\Deathblade? And there, Ratchet Bomb might be just a good, right?

Lands 23
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
10 Plains

Creatures 24
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Judge's Familiar
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Aerial Responder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Hallowed Spiritkeeper
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth

Instant 6
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Enlightened Tutor

Artifact 5
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Enchantment 2
2 honor of the Pure

Sideboard
3 Path to Exile
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Cataclysm
2 Rest In Peace
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Containment Priest
1 Faerie Macabre

[Medea_]

Here's a tournament report (http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1716) by William Schlichting from the GP.

[Lord Darkview]

Looking over Soldier Stompy, I am curious if Aerial Responder isn't just a better choice than Serra Avenger. [EDIT: Nevermind, it has been FANTASTIC for me. See below.]

Aerial Responder over Serra Avenger? Huh... that's not as crazy as it sounds. 2 power is enough for most purposes, and being able to block with Lifelink is quite good. The one time I can really see it really hurting is in the mirror, where it straight-up loses fights to Avenger. Also, on the most aggressive Vial draws, Avenger can put through a fair amount of extra damage. That said, I could totally see this, and will make it a point to get two copies. If it works, it could also lower my incentive to keep an Auriok Champion in the board, giving me an extra slot to tinker with.